Kf2 VS Rotax max

[Domo230]

Hi, new to the forum.

Interested in getting into karting and have applied for the introduction course you are required to do in Ireland. Next step is to choose a class to take part in.

It seems that the choice is between KF2 (not sure what the budget is like for this) and Rotax max . I have a about 6000 euro for a budget but dont want to spend any more than I have to. I intend to take it seriously and try and progress to other forms of motorsport in the future.

Which class do you believe would be the better choice for me?

[Rockmunky]

I don't know what it's like in Ireland particularly. But Rotax is very popular at all levels here, and I think that KF2 would be a more expensive option.

[ghinzani]

If you are serious about your racing then KF2. If you want a more clubman level class then Rotax, but beware of thinsg like the 09 barrel issue (they are quicker). Is there any TKM still out there?

[Domo230]

Originally Posted by ghinzani

If you are serious about your racing then KF2. If you want a more clubman level class then Rotax, but beware of thinsg like the 09 barrel issue (they are quicker). Is there any TKM still out there?

Havnt heard of any TKM in Ireland.
Does anyone have a rough idea of the budget for KF2? Ive been searching online but havnt been able to find a rough figure.

[Sideswipe]

OK, first we need to know a little more about you: Age, weight, racing experience, location, local tracks, what sort of championship you are looking for and anything more you think would be relevant! Then it will be easier for us to point you in the right direction!

Sideswipe

[Domo230]

Originally Posted by Sideswipe

OK, first we need to know a little more about you: Age, weight, racing experience, location, local tracks, what sort of championship you are looking for and anything more you think would be relevant! Then it will be easier for us to point you in the right direction!

Sideswipe

18, 6 ft 3, 12 and a half stone, no racing experience. Live in Dublin. Nearest track I know of is Kiltorcan in Kilkennyhttp://www.irishkarting.com/tracks.php (A fair drive away). Looking for a competetive championship that will challenge me to improve my driving so I can move on to other forms of karting or single seater racing in the future.

[Sideswipe]

Ok, go to the next race meeting at that track, ask around and see what classes run and which are most popular. KF2 is not right to jump straight into. It only runs as a national championship (here in the UK) and the standard is very high! You'll probably find rotax classes are the most popular, personally I hate rotax, but it just happens rotax is a very popular class even though most think the engines are ****e!

If you are feeling adventurous, have a look at EasyKart. It's a national championship, and the standard is very high at the top but there is a good variety of talent so everyone has someone to race. The EasyKart is a one make karting series with costs strictly controlled. It really is proper karting where talent prevails rather than wallet size. It is only starting here in the UK but is already known among all karters as having the friendliest paddock in motorsport. Adrian Neweys son races in it.

BTW, KF2 is very expensive. Some people are spending over £100,000 a yr which is ridiculous! You can race it on a budget but being anywhere near competetive will be incredibly difficult!

[Domo230]

Originally Posted by Sideswipe

BTW, KF2 is very expensive. Some people are spending over £100,000 a yr which is ridiculous! You can race it on a budget but being anywhere near competetive will be incredibly difficult!

Well that rules out kf2 for me. Easykart sounds interesting but I havnt heard of any plans to introduce it here. My karting ourse was delayed until February so I have plenty of time to consider my options.
Looks like it will have to be rotax max then.

[ghinzani]

If you are doing Rotax make sure you get an 09 engine, everything that preceeded it is worthless now really.

[Fabienne Lanz Racing]

I aggree with ghinzani. If you go Rotax, make sure you buy the 09 engine. I have driven 2 or 3 here in South Africa. They are definitely a lot better and more consistent than the older engines. Also make sure you get the 09 clutch as this is way better than the older one... It is a single unit, Rotax got rid of the springs on the clucth shoes, so now it is more reliable. =)

[davyboy]

Domo, I've been racing karts for 26 years, initially in Ireland in the 1980s and now in the UK - I guess I've seen it all, well most of it anyways. Here's some advice in terms of getting started.

o Get yourself to a few race meetings as a spectator and see the lay of the land. Even better, see if you could ask somebody reasonably approachable if you could help them out over a race weekend - i.e. fetch/carry etc... It will give you a very good insight into how everything works and will help you in deciding how to get started, what to buy etc...

o So many people start kart racing believing they'll set the world alight. The fact is they won't. Its more complicated than it first appears and its best to use your first year as a learning year. Do not spend a lot of money on your first rig as you will not be able to get the maximum out of it. The best option would be to buy a 'retirement sale', where somebody getting out of the sport is selling all their kit and caboodle, it short circuit's the process of buying tools, stands etc... all of which cost a lot new. There will be time later to spend money on new equipment when you're quick enough to get the most out of it.

o In terms of class, I would recommend Rotax Max rather than KF2 or Bilands [which are also popular in Ireland]. Its cheaper and more pervasive. Please don't get caught up in this 2009 Rotax Max versus older versions. As I mentioned earlier, until you're several meetings in and have learnt your racecraft, you're driving improvements will give you far more than the delta between the engines - which is minimal if anything in my opinion [and I should know, I bought a brand new 2009 motor a few months ago and have done back to back tests against my 2008 motor]. But don't just take my advice, speak to other people racing in the classes at the events before you draw your own conclusions.

o One final point, karting is great fun but its also dangerous. One area not to scrimp and save is on your lid. Make sure you get yourself a decent helmet that complies with the racing standards in Ireland - I imagine its SNELL 2005, the same as here. As they say buy a $10 helmet if you have a $10 head. After all those years of racing I never needed to use my helmet once... until last November when I had a sizeable shunt that destroyed it !

If you've any questions at all, post them here or drop me a PM [private message] and I'd be only too happy to help.

[kartincolin]

A lot of people seem to not be particularly fond of the Rotax Max kart. I am after buying one and love it, although I would say that seeing as it is my first 2-stroke kart.

If you are serious about having a career in motorsport, is the Rotax a bad series to compete in? I`m aware that it`s KF2 that is raced in the FIA sanctioned championships, but Rotax have their own European championship and they have a World Finals held at the end of every year which you can qualify for by winning your national Rotax championship.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by kartincolin

A lot of people seem to not be particularly fond of the Rotax Max kart. I am after buying one and love it, although I would say that seeing as it is my first 2-stroke kart.

If you are serious about having a career in motorsport, is the Rotax a bad series to compete in? I`m aware that it`s KF2 that is raced in the FIA sanctioned championships, but Rotax have their own European championship and they have a World Finals held at the end of every year which you can qualify for by winning your national Rotax championship.

If you're serious about kart racing, then Rotax Max is absolutely the class to be in. KF is dying at international level and never even got going at club/domestic level. Charlie Eastwood from Northern Ireland won this years Rotax World Finals and as far as I'm concerned he's more of a world champion than those who lifted this years CIK KF crowns.

Rotax Max isn't perfect but it's head and shoulders above any other kart category on just about any measure.

[kartincolin]

Originally Posted by davyboy

If you're serious about kart racing, then Rotax Max is absolutely the class to be in. KF is dying at international level and never even got going at club/domestic level. Charlie Eastwood from Northern Ireland won this years Rotax World Finals and as far as I'm concerned he's more of a world champion than those who lifted this years CIK KF crowns.

Rotax Max isn't perfect but it's head and shoulders above any other kart category on just about any measure.

That`s fantastic to hear. From what I have seen and heard, there are some phenomenal drivers competing in the category, and the racing is extremely competitive.

I just hope that you aren`t a Rotax employee! Merry Christmas btw!

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by kartincolin

That`s fantastic to hear. From what I have seen and heard, there are some phenomenal drivers competing in the category, and the racing is extremely competitive.

I just hope that you aren`t a Rotax employee! Merry Christmas btw!

I'm not a Rotax employee... but from the amount of money I've spent on their kit over the years I ought to be a significant shareholder

Have a great Christmas too... and enjoy your karting in 2013.

[Gilles lives!]

Have you bought a Kart yet kartincolin ? If you went for a Rotax you've probably found out that your budget will restrict you to club meetings ! Rotax Super One on the mainland and Euromax are out of reach to most, unless the driver can buy into a team, or the driver is so good that his talent can 'sell' karts and will be an asset to a team, they are very few however.

Let us know what you chose.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Gilles lives!

Have you bought a Kart yet kartincolin ? If you went for a Rotax you've probably found out that your budget will restrict you to club meetings ! Rotax Super One on the mainland and Euromax are out of reach to most, unless the driver can buy into a team, or the driver is so good that his talent can 'sell' karts and will be an asset to a team, they are very few however.

Let us know what you chose.

The KF model is even more expensive than the Rotax one... making it even further out of reach at national, international level.

[Gilles lives!]

Originally Posted by davyboy

The KF model is even more expensive than the Rotax one... making it even further out of reach at national, international level.

Indeed it is and is not being run in S1 this year due to low numbers. After speaking with my brother (who runs his son in Senior max), can't believe the costs of S1 for this year, entry fees are up £20, spec fuel over £100 a can, TAG transponder needed plus two sets of wets, it must be to pay for the new control Hub that has appeared this year ?
We was also wondering where all the new series sponsor money is going too ?

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Gilles lives!

Indeed it is and is not being run in S1 this year due to low numbers. After speaking with my brother (who runs his son in Senior max), can't believe the costs of S1 for this year, entry fees are up £20, spec fuel over £100 a can, TAG transponder needed plus two sets of wets, it must be to pay for the new control Hub that has appeared this year ?
We was also wondering where all the new series sponsor money is going too ?

The whole 'British Championship', 'Super One' thing has completely lost its way. To say that the administration of karting at the level is wanting would be a complement.

[Gilles lives!]

Yes they are just sitting back and letting Klasson & co carry on , it would be nice for the FIA to recognise it as the top British championship, instead of Kart stars and the like.

[kartincolin]

I chose Rotax, and after several months seem to be making significant improvements in both setting up the kart and my driving, leaving me only a couple of tenths of the country`s outright pace !

I know that the 2012 Irish Rotax Max Champion is doing Super 1 this year with Paul Carr Racing, and they would be requesting £70k plus per season. It`s astronomical money, its edging closer towards a full year in single seaters! Surely pricing the majority out of the sport!

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by kartincolin

I chose Rotax, and after several months seem to be making significant improvements in both setting up the kart and my driving, leaving me only a couple of tenths of the country`s outright pace !

I know that the 2012 Irish Rotax Max Champion is doing Super 1 this year with Paul Carr Racing, and they would be requesting £70k plus per season. It`s astronomical money, its edging closer towards a full year in single seaters! Surely pricing the majority out of the sport!

You're doing very well if you're that quick so early on.

Top level karting, whether in Britain or Europe isn't cheap. It never was. Also, £70K won't get you very far in an equivalent UK national single seater championship either I'm afraid.

Unless you're very well heeled and can easily afford to plough tens of thousands into your hobby, I would think very carefully about going beyond the national scene in Ireland. I know too many extremely talented drivers [and their families] who've lost their shirt 'chasing a dream'... and that's advice that didn't cost you a penny

[Gilles lives!]

Originally Posted by kartincolin

I chose Rotax, and after several months seem to be making significant improvements in both setting up the kart and my driving, leaving me only a couple of tenths of the country`s outright pace !

I know that the 2012 Irish Rotax Max Champion is doing Super 1 this year with Paul Carr Racing, and they would be requesting £70k plus per season. It`s astronomical money, its edging closer towards a full year in single seaters! Surely pricing the majority out of the sport!

There are parents that are rich enough to pay the teams that sort of money and they want the best for their dollar, then even if their lad doesn't win they still go and play with cars ! As davy says stick with what you are doing now, as even winning both S1 and Euromax won't open doors for you unless you are minted.