Respecting Track Limits

[The SpeCTator]

Much has been written on the subject in recent weeks and this weeks Autosport carries a worthy feature in Sports Extre (page 77)

A nice shot of a 6 prominent racers exiting Graham Hill Bend on the track with a nameless gentlemen using that little bit more by way of the "grasscrete."

Maybe he picked up this quick exit from Graham Hill Bend from the DTM boys and girls who 2 weeks previous were doing pretty much the same thing lap after lap - see picture in same Autosport page 27 - a DTM BMW in identical position. To my knowledge no penalties were issued to our star drivers on this occasion.

I support the respecting of track limits but until consistency is brought in week after week irrespective of organising club, clerk of the course, category of racing it is not going to get drivers to keep off the luxury smooth additional run off that has been put in place.

[mattt]

The DTM series isn't under the authority of the MSA afaik, hence why the MSA rules on respecting track limits were not enforced on them

Cant comment on the other section as i dont get autosport

[pauln]

It's centred on a quotation from the most recent MSA News on the subject:

"The Motor Sports Council and Race Committee have agreed that track limits should be strictly enforced at race meetings and have instructed all clerks of the course to adopt a consistent approach. Competitors are therefore advised that breaches of the regulations concerning track limits will be penalised as follows: second offence: warning flag; third offence: five second penalty; fourth offence: drive-through penalty; fifth offence: exclusion."

[The SpeCTator]

Originally Posted by mattt

The DTM series isn't under the authority of the MSA afaik, hence why the MSA rules on respecting track limits were not enforced on them

Cant comment on the other section as i dont get autosport

OK fair comment - substitute DTM for BTCC in April, saw lots of 4 wheels of the track, not so many penalties however.

It seems it is the unlucky clubman that is the main target.

[Bodysnatcher]

Originally Posted by The SpeCTator

OK fair comment - substitute DTM for BTCC in April, saw lots of 4 wheels of the track, not so many penalties however.

It seems it is the unlucky clubman that is the main target.

any actual evidence of that or just hearsay?

BTCC penalties
http://www.tsl-timing.com/toca/2012/121303trg.pdf

BTW photos are static images of a moment in time - they do not show context. I have not yet seen the photos, but they could be the driver's only transgression, or it could be a mistake. Lets face it, getting evidence of running wide when exiting Graham Hill bend is like shooting fish in a barrel.

[pauln]

Thruxton timesheets/results, yes? That link's not quite right - try http://www.tsl-timing.com/toca/2012/121703trg.pdf - but it's a good example.

Qualifying - Mat Jackson, Rob Collard, Gordon Shedden, Jason Plato, Andrew Jordan, Tom Onslow-Cole, Liam Griffin, Andy Neate, Lea Wood and Jeff Smith all had lap times disallowed for exceeding track limits. That's 10 of the 22 drivers, so the other 12 all benefited to some extent. Presumably the times disallowed were those in which they went off, as Jordan still got pole.

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by pauln

Thruxton timesheets/results, yes? That link's not quite right - try http://www.tsl-timing.com/toca/2012/121703trg.pdf - but it's a good example.

Qualifying - Mat Jackson, Rob Collard, Gordon Shedden, Jason Plato, Andrew Jordan, Tom Onslow-Cole, Liam Griffin, Andy Neate, Lea Wood and Jeff Smith all had lap times disallowed for exceeding track limits. That's 10 of the 22 drivers, so the other 12 all benefited to some extent. Presumably the times disallowed were those in which they went off, as Jordan still got pole.

In some cases, presumably for multiple offences, drivers lost all their times in the session up to that point.

[trevisio]

The problem arises when the racing is not close and/or grids are small, resulting the Clerk of the Course having not a lot to do, except focus on track limit breaches.

The Clerk of the Course responsibilities include enforcement of adherence to track limits rules and penalising drivers who make avoidable contact. Of these 2 responsibilities, I am of the opinion that clerks should focus the majority of their attention on penalising drivers who make contact when overtaking, as this behaviour is what ruins races, budgets and championships. Putting a wheel over a white line is not a big deal, in comparison. I'd prefer it if every driver was allowed to do this as it would let the Clerk focus 100% on driving standards.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by trevisio

The problem arises when the racing is not close and/or grids are small, resulting the Clerk of the Course having not a lot to do, except focus on track limit breaches.

So you think Clerks go looking for work just to relieve the boredom of uniteresting races but allow misdemeanours to go unpenalised when the racing's good? The Clerks I know are more professional than that.

The Clerk of the Course responsibilities include enforcement of adherence to track limits rules and penalising drivers who make avoidable contact. Of these 2 responsibilities, I am of the opinion that clerks should focus the majority of their attention on penalising drivers who make contact when overtaking, as this behaviour is what ruins races, budgets and championships.

Clerks act on reports from Post Chiefs (Observers), who are Judges of Fact. Put simply, if it happens it will be reported & entered in the race log. Four wheels off, spun & continued, contact, mechanical defects, nothing has any more or less priority. Speaking as a Post Chief I'd be quite happy if every race could be good, close & clean without the need for me to call anything in to race control & to never have to do a written report; however, I live in the real world where such things are part & parcel of the job. I'm sure the Clerks would all be quite happy never to have any reports to deal with!

Putting a wheel over a white line is not a big deal, in comparison. I'd prefer it if every driver was allowed to do this as it would let the Clerk focus 100% on driving standards.

It's not about putting a wheel over a white line - it's about all four wheels being outside track limits. So how do you define driving standards? Could I suggest that exceeding track limits is a driving standards issue? Attempting to gain advantage by cutting corners, chicanes, whatever is, in the final analysis,cheating . . . now, if that doesn't come under the heading of driving standards I don't know what does! Nobody's "concentrating" on track limits, nobody's being selective; the bottom line is, if you don't want to be penalised, don't do it!