The Great (?) BTCC Streaming v TV Debate 2017

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by thlbtcc

I don't disagree that live motorsport on YouTube is ace, I watch a lot of it there. But live streaming on YouTube is not the way forward for the BTCC. Not yet. Typically, the events you list, get online live views in the low tens of thousands, TV still gets millions.

I watch the BTCC and free via the ITV website, or the ITV Hub app, so quite literally no idea what your point is.

Onwards.

Oh of course, BTCC should not be on Youtube, it should be on BTCC. My point is there are plenty of things to watch without pay TV. I don't have pay tv at all.

I disagree with the comment of "that's why these series have such small fan bases". Actually, the reason is because they have different business models. BTCC requires spectators (and a lot of them) because it's funded by sponsors, and sponsors need spectators. Sportscar racing, especially LMP2 and GTE-Am is funded by wealthy drivers. There is absolutely no need for sponsors in those series, so they don't need to go for TV time and what not. This works out well because most people don't want to watch 4-6 hour races, but amateur drivers DO want to drive those races, and they'll pay for it.

It's a completely different business model and is funded differently. Same as creventic - they have even said they'll drop the Pro teams to keep the Ams if needed.

[AdrianM]

Originally Posted by thlbtcc

Typically, the events you list, get online live views in the low tens of thousands, TV still gets millions.

BTCC hasn't generated a TV audience in the millions for decades. These days they average about 150k for the length of the broadcast with peaks of 300k.

Online is the future and where all niche sport will be eventually. TV is dead. I don't know anyone under 25 who watches TV in the traditional sense anymore.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by AdrianM

BTCC hasn't generated a TV audience in the millions for decades. These days they average about 150k for the length of the broadcast with peaks of 300k.

Online is the future and where all niche sport will be eventually. TV is dead. I don't know anyone under 25 who watches TV in the traditional sense anymore.

I've been beating that drum for years mate. The end of TV as we know it is coming. It'll adapt to on demand and streaming. You only need to look at gaming streams getting numbers of 50,000+ to see that. That's how the younger generation are consuming media now.

Granted for the older generations, it isn't as obvious to search for it on YouTube as it is to load up the TV planner and see what's on. That's going against an entire life time of habit. But to the younger generation, that's the natural way of finding content. An event is on? Get on YouTube and Google, see where they can watch it.

My kids literally never watch TV programs from a TV Channel. But they'll get on YouTube and watch live streams of gaming, cartoons (for the younger one), and sport. That's the future, whether we like it or not.

[thlbtcc]

Originally Posted by AdrianM

BTCC hasn't generated a TV audience in the millions for decades. These days they average about 150k for the length of the broadcast with peaks of 300k.

Online is the future and where all niche sport will be eventually. TV is dead. I don't know anyone under 25 who watches TV in the traditional sense anymore.

The BTCC is watchable online and I said that's where I watch it. I also didn't say the BTCC gets watch by millions. That's still more on TV in the UK than other series streaming for free globally.

[thlbtcc]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

That's the future, whether we like it or not.

Yes, we get online is the future it. Don't think anyone was denying that. We keep banging the drum that you can watch the BTCC online.

[AdrianM]

Originally Posted by thlbtcc

The BTCC is watchable online and I said that's where I watch it. I also didn't say the BTCC gets watch by millions. That's still more on TV in the UK than other series streaming for free globally.

Well you said that TV audiences are in the millions and we are talking about BTCC. Sky doesn't even get millions for F1 although C4 does. It's not about whether a TV company puts it's normal output directly onto a stream. It's a different way of doing things.

I watch many motorsport streams online some free to users and some I subscribe to. None of them have adverts. One of the reasons I don't have Sky or Virgin. I refuse to pay for a service 99% of which I don't want and then have to watch or avoid adverts on top of that. The little TV I do watch is on time delay so I can skip all the adverts. That's not a good business model.

The point is that it's changing like many other things. Cheque books, high street banking, letters are all things that only exist because of the older generation. TV has to change or die.

Reading the BTCC rules and the enormous number of things the teams and drivers can't do on social media because of ITV is like reading something penned by Ecclestone and way behind the times.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by thlbtcc

Yes, we get online is the future it. Don't think anyone was denying that. We keep banging the drum that you can watch the BTCC online.

Nobody said you couldn't watch BTCC online, just that BTCC makes very very good use of traditional TV and it shouldn't drop that. BTCC needs TV and high viewing figures to work because of sponsorship, which ELMS, Creventic etc don't as the business model uses drivers as customers, rather than fans.

You've continually fought against me and even said "I have no idea what your point is!". Well you clearly aren't actually reading what I'm saying, or what I was replying to. S griffin made the excellent point that BTCC is still on free to air TV and doesn't require a ridiculous TV subscription. But he also assumed that only BTCC and F1 are the ones he can watch FTA. All I did was post a bunch of series that he can watch completely for free online, and various ways to access that through a TV (since sitting at a desk or with a laptop isn't to everyones taste). You're the one who keeps coming back for an argument that doesn't exist, asking what my point is, and telling me how poor ELMS viewing figures are. I never said everyone should be using internet right now and that BTCC should drop TV. I was simply posting other series someone could watch as he clearly didn't know he could, and pointing out the obvious - that online viewing is growing exponentially due to younger generations and we should get used to it.

BTCC doesn't really embrace online viewing right now, but it doesn't need to because the channel does it for them right now and it's doing just fine on TV. But you can tell from the TV broadcasts that BTCC is far more in touch with fans that say, F1, or IndyCar, or even NASCAR, and will have no problem switching broadcasting models to streaming and internet based when the time is right. BTCC is probably one of the most adaptable series in the world with how quick it is to get things done and I've no doubt that when the internet becomes the better way to do things for larger shows and sports, BTCC will be the first to make the switch. It's the older generation of fans that need to be on the ball and not ignore online streaming (which a LOT of people on this forum, not necessarily in this thread however, do.)

In summary: BTCC is doing just fine on TV, and ITV lets you watch it online too. There are lots of other series you can watch completely for free too, which is awesome for all motorosport fans. Online viewing will become the norm in our lifetimes, and BTCC will probably be one of the first to adapt because it's shown flexibility in the past.

[VIVA GT]

Just to add a comment to the BTCC on-line trail.
For the past few meetings I've enjoyed watching the BTCC Qualifying on Saturday which as far as I'm aware is only available on-line via the ITVplayer ap, I don't think ITV4 show this on 'actual' TV?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Just to add a comment to the BTCC on-line trail.
For the past few meetings I've enjoyed watching the BTCC Qualifying on Saturday which as far as I'm aware is only available on-line via the ITVplayer ap, I don't think ITV4 show this on 'actual' TV?

I think you're right. Again, that's ITV doing that which is excellent for the series.

[thlbtcc]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Nobody said you couldn't watch BTCC online, just that BTCC makes very very good use of traditional TV and it shouldn't drop that. BTCC needs TV and high viewing figures to work because of sponsorship, which ELMS, Creventic etc don't as the business model uses drivers as customers, rather than fans.

You've continually fought against me and even said "I have no idea what your point is!". Well you clearly aren't actually reading what I'm saying, or what I was replying to. S griffin made the excellent point that BTCC is still on free to air TV and doesn't require a ridiculous TV subscription. But he also assumed that only BTCC and F1 are the ones he can watch FTA. All I did was post a bunch of series that he can watch completely for free online, and various ways to access that through a TV (since sitting at a desk or with a laptop isn't to everyones taste). You're the one who keeps coming back for an argument that doesn't exist, asking what my point is, and telling me how poor ELMS viewing figures are. I never said everyone should be using internet right now and that BTCC should drop TV. I was simply posting other series someone could watch as he clearly didn't know he could, and pointing out the obvious - that online viewing is growing exponentially due to younger generations and we should get used to it.

BTCC doesn't really embrace online viewing right now, but it doesn't need to because the channel does it for them right now and it's doing just fine on TV. But you can tell from the TV broadcasts that BTCC is far more in touch with fans that say, F1, or IndyCar, or even NASCAR, and will have no problem switching broadcasting models to streaming and internet based when the time is right. BTCC is probably one of the most adaptable series in the world with how quick it is to get things done and I've no doubt that when the internet becomes the better way to do things for larger shows and sports, BTCC will be the first to make the switch. It's the older generation of fans that need to be on the ball and not ignore online streaming (which a LOT of people on this forum, not necessarily in this thread however, do.)

In summary: BTCC is doing just fine on TV, and ITV lets you watch it online too. There are lots of other series you can watch completely for free too, which is awesome for all motorosport fans. Online viewing will become the norm in our lifetimes, and BTCC will probably be one of the first to adapt because it's shown flexibility in the past.

Sigh.

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

BTCC doesn't really embrace online viewing right now, but it doesn't need to because the channel does it for them right now and it's doing just fine on TV.

I don't understand how you can say the BTCC doesn't embrace online viewing.

Every race is available to watch live online.
Every race is available to watch on demand online.
Every qualifying session is available to watch live online.
Additional content is shown exclusively online

How is that not embracing online viewing?

[Akrapovic]

The majority of that is just ITV. I can also watch Celebrity Love Island (I feel dirty typing that) online via ITV4, but I don't think they've fully embraced online viewing. Its just streaming TV for the majority of it, and whilst that's excellent for where BTCC is sitting, that's not going to be enough for the future. That's why MotoGP, WEC, WRC are moving to dedicated online system - because that's how younger generations see accessing content now.

Don't get me wrong, what BTCC is doing through ITV is great for the series. But let's not pretend it's pioneering online viewing. Its just some ITV live with some on demand and alternative channels - which is what sky was doing a decade ago. BTCC is doing great but it's not on the level of other online systems, as it's just an adapted TV service.

I'd like to see the series streamed on the BTCC website, with the entire show watchable on demand. I'd like to see live timing introduced. I'd like to see selectable camera angles (onboard are the usual choice for this). I'd like to see them move away from the dying flash platform, as it'd improve device compatibility. I'd like to see a BTCC app (phones and consoles) which allows streaming and timing to be viewed.

BTCC current coverage is great (usually, it's been a bit rough this year, don't know why), but it currently is an adapted TV setup rather than fully embracing an online system like others do. I understand some will prefer the current setup, and that's just fine, but it isn't as flexible as other series, and technology wise it's limiting itself with ITV video format choice. Feel free to disagree, but simple streaming of ITV 4 is not fully embracing the potential of online viewing IMO.

Edit: their policing of YouTube clips is also quite out dated and something even F1 is now going back on with its new owners. Duke video seem to be heavily involved in the removal of BTCC content from the Internet. This was how most series went about things in the 90s and 00s. BTCC is still catching up in that regard.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I'd like to see the series streamed on the BTCC website, with the entire show watchable on demand. I'd like to see live timing introduced.

live timing and live streaming and live circuit commentary etc all available on btcc website; http://www.btcc.net/live/

[850Estate]

Did anyone else notice that Qualifying was streamable on mobile on Saturday? That's the sort of step-forward we've been asking for, for years.

Credit to ITV for that. Most welcome.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

live timing and live streaming and live circuit commentary etc all available on btcc website; http://www.btcc.net/live/

Sorry poorly worded by me. I mean introduced on the streaming page. Last time I used it you couldn't bring up streaming on the same page as timing. It was one or the other.

The video format is also going to become a problem in the next couple of years. They only just moved away from Silverlight, a format that was dead before it even began, and moved to Flash, a format which was announced to be being phased out. ITV and btcc should be moving to HTML5 and supporting more devices. A lot of modern streaming boxes simply don't work with the ITV player.

BTCC is online. It just isn't as good as it could be and relies too much on ITV to get it there.

[Matt K]

When it comes to live streaming on the Net I would love to see free BTCC streams abroad. Because living outside the UK it's hard to watch BTCC live

[pimmy]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Sorry poorly worded by me. I mean introduced on the streaming page. Last time I used it you couldn't bring up streaming on the same page as timing. It was one or the other.

The funny thing is, the ITV streaming page did actually have the timing on it a few years ago. No idea why they stopped doing that.

The BTCC viewing experience is generally poor online and on TV. Look at Supercars down under for example. All of the support races are shown, as are some of their qualifying sessions, and the Supercar practice sessions are broadcast as well. F1 & NASCAR broadcast all of their practice and qualifying sessions, as does TCR International. Even looking at smaller national championships, it's possible to watch all Saturday and Sunday races of the ADAC Motorsport package in Germany and the Thai Super Series, and I'm sure there are many others.

ITV have the capability to show the entire event but they refuse to do so. They have all the cameras ready and set up to show BTCC qualifying on Saturdays (and even then it's not in HD) but we only see the support races if there's the possibility of a title being decided at the final meeting. Even on Sundays, the coverage starts and ends with BTCC. Any support races before the BTCC are either not shown or are shown in the form of hacked up, almost incoherent highlights, and supports after the third BTCC race are treated as if they're not even happening. And before anyone says "But you can watch those on Motorsport UK", those programmes are weeks and sometimes months behind.

The coverage is really poor by modern standards but that's ITV for you. All they care about are adverts and sob stories.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Matt K

When it comes to live streaming on the Net I would love to see free BTCC streams abroad. Because living outside the UK it's hard to watch BTCC live

We are currently living outside of the UK, and watching the live streaming is our only option. I am glad that the BTCC is one of those sports that has embraced online presence and is available to stream. It's easy to find, and watch.

[AdrianM]

There's a massive difference between putting the tv feed online (it's not legal to watch from abroad live is it?) and embracing the opportunities available online though.

Take the Le Mans 24 this weekend. ITV4 will be showing four hours in the morning with the usual directors choice of shots. I will be watching online with multiple onboards available, multiple pit cameras, different sound options etc etc all when I want them so I don't have to suffer the director with yet more lingering shots of wives and girlfriends at the back of the garage.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by pimmy

The BTCC viewing experience is generally poor online and on TV. Look at Supercars down under for example. All of the support races are shown, as are some of their qualifying sessions, and the Supercar practice sessions are broadcast as well.

seriously?! in australia more than half the supercars events are not on free to air and their viewing figures dropped through the floor because free to air viewers can only watch short highlights. supercars fans in australia have been up in arms about the lack of free to air broadcasting as they have to pay heavily to watch the coverage you outlined. even the team owners are saying how the coverage has badly affected the series! the team owners took the money from selling the broadcast deal and now regret it. give me free to view itv any day!

http://www.v8central.com/snitz3403/t...TOPIC_ID=41391

[VIVA GT]

I think we all must remember that everyone has different objectives here.
We enthusiasts want to watch the racing, as much of the racing and in as high quality as possible and would prefer to do this where we are most comfortable with the smallest cost & inconvenience to ourselves.
The TV companies broadcast the racing to make money (over and above what it costs them to do so), and ITV do this by selling advertising to be shown within the coverage and therefore hopefully seen by the people watching.
The teams are mainly in it for the sport, but competing also costs (a hell of a lot of) money which they get from sponsorship generated a lot by the fact that the racing is shown on free to air, National TV, meaning that the sponsors should get good exposure/value for money (sponsors are there for only one reason).
If super-duper coverage is streamed live on the internet, who is going to pay for it? (If it goes behind a pay wall, the numbers watching will decrease meaning less exposure for the sponsors). If it is available on-demand over the internet and there are no adverts, where does the revenue come from to pay for the coverage?
I know that 'things are different nowadays', but when my interest in motorsport began I had to be content with sparse TV coverage of certain Grand Prix, and later as far as the BTCC was concerned, recorded highlights shown on Grandstand a few weeks after the event and often not at the time advertised meaning that if I did try to record it, I'd end up with hours of horse racing instead of Touring Car Racing!

[AdrianM]

Many levels to it. Blancpain and others stream live with no adverts or pay wall but there is extensive branding all over the circuit which a lot of people are seeing and there is more money coming in from the manufacturers than in BTCC I would say as well.

With the WEC it's behind a pay wall but a very reasonably priced one. If I was a sponsor it wouldn't bother me as I know the audience would be a very targeted one.

Lets not forget that marketing wise they know far more about the online viewer than they do about someone watching on TV.

The actual production costs probably aren't that great as even most club series are recorded these days. It's not like the old days where camera equipment was 6 figures.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

We are currently living outside of the UK, and watching the live streaming is our only option. I am glad that the BTCC is one of those sports that has embraced online presence and is available to stream. It's easy to find, and watch.

Honestly I haven't found any reasonable streams for those living outside the UK...

[Akrapovic]

Where does the official ITV 4 stream work then? Does Ireland get it? Does anywhere else get it?

[S griffin]

My original post was just a comment on how the coverage of the BTCC has never been better, especially when you look back to the coverage we had in the 90s.