Rovals

[Purist]

This got rekindled in my mind with the piece on SC365 regarding the Blancpain America finale's venue, and its particular configuration.
https://sportscar365.com/sro/blancpa...yout-revealed/

Obviously, the great majority of the courses normally lumped into this category are in the States, but it isn't a uniquely American thing, with circuits like Rockingham (UK), Lausitzring, or even Brooklands, and the old Monza and Montlhery if we're stretching it.

I've made some of my thoughts on this known on several fronts in the comments for that article, but I thought it might be a worthy topic here.

Naturally, the most pressing items for this section of the forum in terms of rovals would be the aforementioned Blancpain America finale at Las Vegas, as well as next year's finale, and US round of the Intercontinental GT Challenge, at Indianapolis.

Aside from what I said in response to that article, I guess my main sentiments are that I think a roval needs to either be particularly interesting or just go to the extreme (more in the Daytona or Talladega sense than the NASCAR Charlotte or California/Fontana sense). Don't make it too tight and fiddly, and not to put too fine a point on it, but I don't really see the point of a roval that doesn't use any of the banked corners.

So, what do you guys think about the chosen layout for Las Vegas? What alternate layout might you have preferred instead? What layout do you hope they choose for Indy next year? What are your thoughts on rovals generally? Are there any ones you particularly like? Do you hate them all, or are there just some that come off as especially terrible in your mind?

I'll take up the first reply with an extensive catalog of rovals with lap lengths, the number of corners for each layout, and lap records for major Sportscar and/or GT categories that have raced on them to help give you some idea of the nature of the course. And of course, feel free to look up track maps and such as you see fit.

As a final note here, I didn't include purpose-built ovals that just had a few chicanes added, but no infield section. So that's why Rafaela, or the World Challenge version of Charlotte from 2007, aren't listed.

[Purist]

Here's the listing of quite a few of the more significant rovals. Not being as familiar with the British GT field, I left both driver last names listed for the Rockingham lap records. For a few of the others as well, I took an educated guess as to which driver set the quick time. Also, not surprisingly, the Brooklands info is a bit more iffy; the year isn't an absolute certainty, and the lap speed is taken from a book I have, from which I calculated the lap time; the Grenzlandring speed is calculated, too.

Adelaide Int'l Raceway
1.498 miles (2.410 km), 9 turns
Record: Peter Brock, 51.100 (105.534 mph); Chevrolet Monza, 1982 (Group 5)

Atlanta Motor Speedway
2.522 miles (4.059 km), 15 turns
Record: P.J. Jones, 1:12.104 (125.918 mph); Eagle GTP Mk.III Toyota, 1993 (IMSA GTP)

AVUS
1.640 miles (2.639 km), 7 turns
Record: Bernd Schneider, 57.020 (103.543 mph); Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.5-16 Evo2, 1992 (DTM)
3.032 miles (4.880 km), 7 turns
Record: Hans-Joachim Stuck, 1:30.050 (121.213 mph); Audi V8 Quattro, 1991 (DTM)
5.039 miles (8.110 km), 7 turns
Record: Volkert Merl, 2:02.130 (148.534 mph); Porsche 956, 1983 (DRM Group C)
5.157 miles (8.300 km), 5 turns
Record: Gerhard Koch, 2:13.500 (139.065 mph); Porsche 906, 1967 (Group 6)
11.987 miles (19.290 km), 5 turns
Record: Luigi Fagioli, 4:08.200 (173.865 mph); Auto Union Type C Streamliner, 1937 (F. Libre)
12.163 miles (19.573 km), 5 turns
Record: Hans Stuck, 4:31.100 (161.515 mph); Auto Union Type B, 1935 (F. Libre)

Brooklands
3.369 miles (5.422 km), 9 turns
Record: N/A
2.267 miles (3.648 km), 9 turns
Record: Raymond Mays, 1:44.913 (77.790 mph); ERA B, 1937 (Voiturette)

California Speedway
2.880 miles (4.635 km), 21 turns
Record: Didier Theys, 1:29.151 (116.297 mph); Dallara SP1 Judd, 2002 (GA LMP900)

Charlotte Motor Speedway
2.260 miles (3.637 km), 14 turns
Record: J.J. Lehto, 1:04.096 (126.935 mph); BMW V12 LMR, 2000 (ALMS LMP900)
2.250 miles (3.621 km), 12 turns
Record: Al Holbert, 1:04.920 (124.769 mph); Porsche 962, 1985 (IMSA GTP)

Daytona Int'l Speedway
3.560 miles (5.729 km), 17 turns
Record: Oliver Jarvis, 1:33.685 (136.799 mph); Mazda RT24-P, 2019 (IMSA DPI)
3.560 miles (5.729 km), 17 turns
Record: P.J. Jones, 1:33.875 (136.521 mph); Eagle GTP Mk.III Toyota, 1993 (IMSA GTP)
3.870 miles (6.228 km), 14 turns
Record: Mario Andretti, 1:50.989 (125.526 mph); Porsche 962, 1984 (IMSA GTP)
3.840 miles (6.180 km), 11 turns
Record: Bob Wollek, 1:42.155 (135.324 mph); Porsche 935 L, 1983 (IMSA GTX)
3.810 miles (6.131 km), 11 turns
Record: Mark Donohue, 1:41.250 (135.467 mph); Ferrari 512 S/M, 1971 (WSC Group 6)

Grenzlandring
5.700 miles (9.173 km), 5 turns
Record: Toni Ulmen, 2:35.454 (132.000 mph), Veritas RS 2000 BMW, 1951 (S2.0)

Homestead-Miami Speedway
2.300 miles (3.701 km), 11 turns
Record: Darren Law, 1:11.806 (115.311 mph); Riley Mk.XI Porsche, 2010 (GA DP)
2.300 miles (3.701 km), 11 turns
Record: Didier Theys, 1:10.108 (118.103 mph); Dallara SP1 Judd, 2002 (GA LMP900)
2.210 miles (3.556 km), 14 turns
Record: Ricardo Zonta, 1:14.298 (107.082 mph); Mercedes-Benz CLK LM, 1998 (FIA GT1)

Indianapolis Motor Speedway
2.530 miles (4.071 km), 13 turns
Record: N/A, 2020 (FIA GT3)
2.439 miles (3.925 km), 14 turns
Record: Ryan Dalziel, 1:17.603 (113.145 mph); HPD ARX-03b, 2014 (IMSA Prototype)
2.534 miles (4.078 km), 13 turns
Record: Scott Pruett, 1:22.191 (110.990 mph); Riley Mk.XXVI BMW, 2013 (GA DP)

Iowa Speedway
1.300 miles (2.092 km), 9 turns
Record: Michael Valiante, 41.624 (112.435 mph); Riley Mk.XI Lexus, 2007 (GA DP)

Kansas Speedway
2.370 miles (3.814 km), 9 turns
Record: Scott Pruett, 1:09.745 (122.331 mph); Riley Mk.XXVI BMW, 2013 (GA DP)

Las Vegas Motor Speedway
2.500 miles (4.023 km), 16 turns
Record: N/A, 2019 (FIA GT3)
2.250 miles (3.621 km), 12 turns
Record: Allan McNish, 1:06.628 (121.571 mph); Audi R8, 2000 (ALMS LMP900)
2.150 miles (3.460 km), 11 turns
Record: Wayne Taylor, 1:10.198 (110.260 mph); Ferrari 333 SP, 1998 (IMSA WSC)
1.940 miles (3.122 km), 11 turns
Record: Butch Leitzinger, 1:05.117 (107.253 mph); R&S Mk.III Ford. 1997 (IMSA WSC)

Lausitzring
2.817 miles (4.345 km), 14 turns
Record: Jan Lammers, 1:38.173 (103.299 mph); Dome S101 Judd, 2003 (FIA SCC LMP900)

Mallory Park
1.350 miles (2.173 km), 6 turns
Record: Les Aylott, 46.000 (105.652 mph); Ardua Ford, 1971 (Group 6)

Michigan Int'l Speedway
1.900 miles (3.058 km), 11 turns
Record: Klaus Ludwig, 1:05.016 (105.205 mph); Ford Mustang GTP, 1984 (IMSA GTP)
3.000 miles (4.828 km), 15 turns
Record: Denny Hulme, 1:32.500 (116.757 mph); McLaren M8B Chevrolet, 1969 (Can-Am)

Montlhery
4.850 miles (7.805 km), 22 turns
Record: Helmut Marko, 2:30.300 (115.856 mph); Porsche 917 Spyder, 1971 (Group 6)

Monza Combined
6.276 miles (10.100 km), 19 turns
Record: Pedro Rodriguez, 2:48.100 (134.406 mph); Ferrari 312 P, 1969 (WSC Group 6)
6.214 miles (10.000 km), 11 turns
Record: Mike Parkes, 2:46.900 (134.035 mph); Ferrari 275 P2, 1965 (WSC Group 7)

Ontario Speedway
2.940 miles (4.731 km), 13 turns
Record: Michael Keyser, 1:43.604 (102.158 mph); Chevrolet Monza, 1976 (IMSA GTO)

Phoenix Int'l Raceway
1.510 miles (2.430 km), 13 turns
Record: P.J. Jones, 49.669 (109.445 mph); Eagle GTP Mk.III Toyota, 1992 (IMSA GTP)

Pikes Peak Int'l Raceway
1.289 miles (2.074 km), 9 turns
Record: Andrea Montermini, 48.716 (95.254 mph); Ferrari 333 SP, 1997 (IMSA WSC)

Pocono Raceway
2.800 miles (4.506 km), 9 turns
Record: Pete Halsmer, 1:20.701 (124.906 mph); Porsche 962, 1985 (IMSA GTP)

Rockingham Motor Speedway
1.940 miles (3.122 km), 12 turns
Record: Johnston/Adam, 1:16.075 (91.804 mph); Aston Martin Vantage GT3, 2016 (BGT GT3)
2.050 miles (3.299 km), 13 turns
Record: Attard/Sims, 1:22.280 (89.694 mph); BMW Z4 GT3, 2015 (BGT GT3)
1.950 miles (3.138 km), 14 turns
Record: Mullen/Marchos, 1:20.379 (87.366 mph); Ferrari F430 GTC, 2006 (BGT GT2)
2.450 miles (3.943 km), 15 turns
Record: Balfe/Derbyshire, 1:36.869 (91.051 mph); Mosler MT900R, 2003 (BGT GT)
2.560 miles (4.120 km), 16 turns
Record: McKellar/Erdos, 1:39.352 (92.761 mph); Saleen S7-R, 2002 (BGT GT)

Talladega Superspeedway
4.000 miles (6.437 km), 18 turns
Record: Peter Gregg, 1:52.364 (128.155 mph); Porsche 935, 1978 (IMSA GTX)

Texas Motor Speedway
2.324 miles (3.740 km), 13 turns
Record: Allan McNish, 1:12.716 (115.056 mph); Audi R8, 2000 (ALMS LMP900)

Texas World Speedway
1.920 miles (3.090 km), 10 turns
Record: Wayne Taylor, 55.057 (125.543 mph); R&S Mk.III Oldsmobile, 1996 (IMSA WSC)
3.000 miles (4.828 km), 14 turns
Record: Denny Hulme, 1:31.600 (117.904 mph); McLaren M8B Chevrolet, 1969 (Can-Am)

Hope you enjoyed some of the drivers and machines that set some of those benchmarks.

[Adam43]

This is great. I like how it even includes Mallory and Rockingham. Both of which I’ve driven and loved. Mallory is just a great place to race and I always loved Rockingham. It’s a shame it’s gone. I’ve done at least a couple of those layouts.

Brooklands is cool, I knew about that, but I don’t really know about the rival AVUS versions.

[Anyopenroad]

I love going to Daytona. The combination of the twisty infield (with close viewing) and the awe-inspiring banking is just great. Seeing cars go three wide round the banking at night is one of the great sights in motorsport.

I am definitely going to Indianapolis for the IGTC next year. Great chance to see the Speedway and to properly explore the venue.

[Speed-King]

I have a hard time seeing AVUS as a roval, with only one corner being banked and the rest of the track utilizing public roads.

As far as my favorite and least favorite rovals are concerned, I can only speak from gaming experience: I remember quite liking Talladega back when I was playing GT Legends. Las Vegas, on the other hand, was really not very much fun back in the Sportscar GT-days. I must have destroyed hundreds of virtual cars (mostly TRG 911 RSRs) at the tire chicane on the front stretch.

[Purist]

SK, well I did say a few of my choices might be a stretch, so fair enough if that's your sense on Avus.

Yeah, the way SCGT hems that in makes the Las Vegas chicane look pretty diabolical. I've thought the Talladega course could be interesting, though it's a bit hard to tell the speed through there visually with the models I've seen that don't have as much context with regards to whatever surroundings there were.

AOR, I get that with Daytona. As for Indy, I guess we'll see how the GT3s go. I hope those guys use the longer layout that incorporates the Oval Turn 1 banking.

A43, the basic version of Mallory looks like a fun little blast. I have more mixed feelings about Rockingham; at least when it comes to higher-performance racing cars, the lap just seems a bit too busy. Taking out the Oval Turn 1 chicane does help some with that.

Avus probably would have flown under the radar for me, too, if not for the stuff I found on 1920s and '30s GP and Sports Car racing some time back.

As a general note, I may amend the entries for Brooklands, Lausitzring, and Montlhery. There could be a bit more info on Brooklands in one of a couple books I have. With Lausitzring, there are some discrepancies on lap lengths and how long one or two of the layouts might actually be. Regarding Montlhery, even if only three or so of the layouts saw regular enough use to get proper length and record data, the facility had about 9 possible layouts in addition to just the straight oval, to say nothing of how various iterations of chicanes play into all that.

[Adam43]

The good thing about Mallory is that the bit that makes the oval a roval has gradient. The drop back down from the top onto the start finish straight is called devils elbow and is good fun.

I always ended up being quite good at Rockingham and it is the only place anyone ever asked me for my autograph!

[Mike E]

Here's an honourable mention for Phakisa Freeway, probably the only paved oval in Africa, and only used once. Even the road course barely touches the oval, just using the pitlane.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phakisa_Freeway

[Purist]

Well, it and the version of the Motegi road course that IndyCar used in 2011, which used the oval pit lane instead of the road course one.

I suppose, if you're looking for something that perhaps blurs the lines a bit, besides Avus, maybe the Nurburgring Betonschleife fits the bill.

A43, yeah, that dip there at Mallory gets your attention on the onboard.

[Speed-King]

There's also the pseudo-oval that CART used to race on in Rio de Janeiro:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aut%...on_Piquet#CART

Though that's probably more like a reverse roval, starting out as a road-course and then being turned into an improvised flat oval.

Gesendet von meinem Moto G (5) mit Tapatalk

[Purist]

Sorry for going dark. Internet went down at the house for 6 days, just came back up.

[Purist]

Alright, having been basically delayed a week by the Net outage, I'll try this again.

Here's an update to the first listing, with new material for Brooklands, Lausitzring, Monza, and Montlhery. I've also decided to include the first few layouts of one more circuit that wasn't initially in there.

Brooklands
3.369 miles (5.422 km), 9 turns
Record: Raymond Mays, under 2:27.370 (over 82.300 mph); ERA B, 1937 (Voiturette)
2.267 miles (3.648 km), 9 turns
Record: Raymond Mays, 1:44.913 (77.790 mph); ERA B, 1937 (Voiturette)

Enna-Pergusa
3.030 miles (4.876 km), 14 turns
Record: Arturo Merzario, 1:21.760 (133.415 mph); Alfa Romeo T33/TT/12, 1975 (WSC Group 6)
3.010 miles (4.844 km), 10 turns
Record: Jo Bonnier, 1:26.400 (125.417 mph); Lola T210 Ford, 1970 (Group 6)
2.983 miles (4.800 km), 6 turns
Record: Mario Casoni, 1:17.400 (138.744 mph); Ford GT40, 1966 (WSC Group 7)

Lausitzring
2.840 miles (4.570 km), 14 turns
Record: Rene Rast, 1:35.241 (107.349 mph); Audi RS 5 Turbo, 2019 (DTM)
2.161 miles (3.478 km), 12 turns
Record: Lucas Auer, 1:16.193 (102.104 mph); Mercedes-AMG C 63, 2017 (DTM)
2.139 miles (3.442 km), 12 turns
Record: Jamie Green, 1:17.489 (99.374 mph); AMG-Mercedes C Class, 2005 (DTM)
2.817 miles (4.533 km), 14 turns
Record: Jan Lammers, 1:38.173 (103.299 mph); Dome S101 Judd, 2003 (FIA SCC LMP900)

Montlhery
2.116 miles (3.405 km), 15 turns
Record: Michel Ferte, 1:20.430 (94.711 mph); Venturi 600 LM, 1994 (FIA GT1)
4.847 miles (7.800 km), 21 turns
Record: Helmut Marko, 2:30.300 (116.096 mph); Porsche 917 Spyder, 1971 (Group 6)
3.927 miles (6.320 km), 15 turns
Record: Johnny Servoz-Gavin, 2:17.900 (102.518 mph); Matra M630 Ford, 1968 (Group 6)
2.071 miles (3.333 km), 8 turns
Record: Gijs van Lennep, 1:23.600 (89.182 mph); Porsche 906, 1966 (Group 6)
4.837 miles (7.784 km), 15 turns
Record: Jean Behra, 2:50.000 (102.431 mph); Maserati 300S, 1956 (Sportscar)
3.904 miles (6.283 km, 9 turns
Record: Jean Behra, 2:16.000 (103.341 mph); Gordini T24S 3.0, 1954 (Sportscar)
7.800 miles (12.552 km), 34 turns
Record: Achille Varzi, 5:20.100 (87.723 mph); Auto Union Type A, 1935 (GP 750 kg)
7.767 miles (12.500 km), 24 turns
Record: Louis Chiron, 5:06.000 (91.376 mph); Alfa Romeo Tipo B/P3 2.9, 1934 (GP 750 kg)

Monza Combined
6.276 miles (10.100 km), 19 turns
Record: Pedro Rodriguez, 2:48.100 (134.406 mph); Ferrari 312 P, 1969 (WSC Group 6)
6.214 miles (10.000 km), 11 turns
Record: Mike Parkes, 2:46.900 (134.035 mph); Ferrari 275 P2, 1965 (WSC Group 7)
4.281 miles (6.889 km), 14 turns
Record: Hermann Lang, 2:32.400 (101.126 mph); Mercedes-Benz W154, 1938 (GP 3.0L S/4.5L)
4.350 miles (7.000 km), 29 turns
Record: Bernd Rosemeyer, 2:56.400 (88.775 mph); Auto Union Type C, 1936 (GP 750 kg)
4.319 miles (6.950 km), 27 turns
Record: Tazio Nuvolari, 2:49.800 (91.569 mph); Alfa Romeo 8C-35, 1935 (GP 750 kg)
2.678 miles (4.310 km), 14 turns
Record: Hans Stuck, 2:13.600 (72.162 mph); Auto Union Type A, 1934 (GP 750 kg)
6.214 miles (10.000 km), 11 turns
Record: Luigi Fagioli, 3:13.200 (115.789 mph); Alfa Romeo Tipo B/P3 2.6, 1933 (F. Libre)
4.263 miles (6.860 km), 10 turns
Record: Luigi Arcangeli, 2:29.000 (103.000 mph); Maserati Tipo 26M 2.5, 1930 (F. Libre)

The full extent of the chicanery at Montlhery in the 1960s into the '70s is too much of a mess to readily suss out, with various pieces not matching up or making sense.

Although the combined course length is the same, the pre-War and post-War layouts at Monza are not the same. As an example, the current Parabolica is an opening corner, while the 1922-38 version was pretty much semi-circular.

[Purist]

First look around the Las Vegas course. It's perhaps more open in some respects than I was worried it might be; however, at least preliminarily, they want the cars below the tri-oval banking by the start/finish line, which the drivers think won't help the racing.

SC365 articles are giving a marginally longer lap length than what was originally out there, with an increase to 2.51 miles around; I don't know how they're getting that the course only has 12 turns though.

Onboard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUChsRkiKvs

I still think the chicane should have been left farther down toward Oval Turn 1, like how it was when the ALMS ran there.

As to next year's IGTC, hopefully they see fit to run the Indy layout that does include Oval Turn 1; since it's longer, and will be an endurance race, it would actually be a closer fit to the FIA's charts to run the longer configuration. Even then, it's still short of the technical minimum listed in Appendix O.

[broadrun96]

And they have had to modify the layout for starts and the finish of the GT4 race. I believe the races start on the backstretch to avoid a start and dive in to the chicane. And the GT4 race ends with them going wide as the finish line is within the braking area for Turn 1, their solution is to have finishing cars go around the chicane.

[Purist]

I saw that in the notes.

Watching Qualifying for the GT3s, I'm even more convinced they should have stuck with the old chicane and treatment for the tri-oval. And as for starts and restarts, the ALMS had it right at Texas; just skip the chicane on the first lap when they're bunched and getting up to speed.

Honestly, I'm wondering how they got the track width and lane shift in the tri-oval approved by the FIA; I'm not sure how you realistically get two cars side-by-side through there, and it's supposed to be a "straight".

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Purist

Watching Qualifying for the GT3s, I'm even more convinced they should have stuck with the old chicane and treatment for the tri-oval. And as for starts and restarts, the ALMS had it right at Texas; just skip the chicane on the first lap when they're bunched and getting up to speed.

Are the only examples of doing something different on the first lap to rest of the race on rovals?

[Purist]

No. At least in the case of chicanes, this isn't a unique thing. They used to omit the final chicane on the start at Porto, and WTCR does likewise at Vila Real. Also, I think the ALMS ran straight through the chicane on Pratt Street at least for the final year at Baltimore on the initial start.

As for starting location, the prime example is Mid Ohio, where the race start is on the back stretch. IMSA did something similar on the street circuit at Columbus, starting the cars on the longer stretch out of Turn 3; that one was especially messy, because the start/restart line was at a different location from where laps were counted, which wasn't the same as the finish line, and again, the pits were somewhere else entirely.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Purist

As to next year's IGTC, hopefully they see fit to run the Indy layout that does include Oval Turn 1; since it's longer, and will be an endurance race, it would actually be a closer fit to the FIA's charts to run the longer configuration. Even then, it's still short of the technical minimum listed in Appendix O.

I doubt any of the road course homologations allows for use of oval T1 (just my guess). Either way, I believe including Oval T1 will shorten the length instead of increasing it (see the map in attached link). What is the technical minimum? If the length needs to be longer than the IndyCar layout, they will probably use the T5-T6 loop that was used during the F1 GPs (and that IndyCar bypasses to go directly from T4 to the Hullmann back straight), adding at least a 1/4 mile.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._IndycarGP.svg

Edit: above described lay-out will bring the course length to 2.592-mile according to 2017 SCCA Runoffs event page.

[Purist]

Every major series that comes to mind (F1 and Grand-Am mainly) that used the layout with Oval Turn 1 also used the Turn 5-7 loop in the infield, so I just put the two pieces together by default. That layout is officially listed as 2.534 miles, though with the smoothing of the esse before the track heads back on to the oval for the 2015 season, it's marginally shorter, so should be something like 2.530 miles.

Check the SC365 piece linked to in the opening thread post about the Las Vegas course layout. Of note is the part that they looked at a number of different configurations. So it seems there's nothing officially ruling out using banked turns (and Indy's are low compared to most top-tier ovals). However, it also makes me wonder all the more why they selected the version of the roval they did (much tighter than it needed to be; unnecessarily hard to overtake on; and even requiring, in their eyes, a relocation of the start/restart point).

If they're still satisfied with their choice over the other options, then I'm glad that Vegas is a one-and-done deal; however, it doesn't exactly inspire confidence in them making a good choice for good racing at Indy next season.

Although there is the caveat that it's technically for official FIA championships, Blancpain GT (whatever it's going to be called after this year) is the de facto FIA GT championship. For GTs, and a race duration of 6-12 hours, the minimum circuit length listed on the table in Appendix O is 4.7 km (2.921 miles). Obviously, even the first MotoGP course was shy of that by 0.3 of a mile. Of course, this means Kyalami already has an exception with the IGTC, but 2.85 miles is definitely closer to the desired mark.

I think it's a safe bet that the Turn 5-7 loop will be included to lengthen the lap from 2.439 (2.435) miles, but that takes away quite a bit from the infield stretch. There's really only one way to keep the lap speed up, give the cars a standout section to stretch their legs, and also alleviate the inevitable traffic issues that will come up in an 8-hour race. And I'm not sure that the final corner of the IndyCar or SCCA Runoffs course is going to quite be flat-out in the GT3s. Also, the difference between 2.592 (2.588) miles and 2.534 (2.530) miles is a lot smaller than the difference between either of those and 2.921 miles. (And yes, comparing GA GT in 2013 to IMSA GTD in 2014, the layout using Oval Turn 1 is faster than the IndyCar variant; the cars were uprated and the track was partially repaved for 2014, but average speed was actually a bit slower.)

[carbsmith]

I don't think with Indy's history of tire problems I would use the banking in a series that uses non-track specific tires. It was heavily related to the paving of the track at the time but still why would you not just avoid it entirely?

The straight without the banking is still quite long anyways, like 950m, about 100m longer than the back stretch at Sebring and also about the same length as the front and back stretches at Suzuka. IndyCar was using low downforce setups and had lots of drafting passing going on.

[Purist]

I think the very fact that they're going to Indy shows that they want a showcase event in the US, and running the Oval T1 banking will only enhance that aspect.

Pirelli has experience with rovals from their time in Grand-Am, as well as Rockingham with British GT. And assuming they've done anything with GT3s at the Nurburgring, they have experience dealing with extreme and unusual loads. For F1, they have to design for a number of high-load circuits, like Spa and Suzuka, plus they have Zandvoort coming, which means Scheivlak and a new, banked Luyendyk Bocht. IGTC also has Spa and Suzuka, as well as Bathurst with its lateral loads and compressions.

More directly though, they had to bring a tire capable of handling at least some banking to Las Vegas anyway. Ovals with moderate to higher banking have the outside of the apron, before you get to the oval turn proper, banked to a lesser extent. So inside the 18-20-degree main banking at Las Vegas, that outer portion of the apron may be 6 degrees or so. (The tri-oval is banked 12 degrees, btw.)

Sebring's claim to fame isn't its long straights, but regardless, the figure I'm recalling for the Ullman Straight is 0.595 of a mile, which translates to 957 meters, so no it isn't as short as you suggested. I've seen figures of 872 and 975 meters for the front straight of the Indy roval, which is a bit confusing, because that length for both the first iteration of the MotoGP layout and the IndyCar configuration should be the same. Furthermore, while the front straight at Suzuka may be of similar length to Indy, the run from Spoon to 130R is 1,200 meters, not 950. In fact, almost every recent or current F1 circuit has a straight or stretch of a kilometer or more, with some going notably beyond that (Fuji: 1,475 meters); you can add several of the US road courses to that club as well: Road America, Road Atlanta, and VIR to name just a few.

And unfortunately for your assertion based on IndyCar, the SCCA Runoffs layout would throw those low-downforce setups out the window, because with the extra infield loop, you now only have one long straight/stretch, not two. Even if Turn 15 of that layout (T14 for IndyCar) is flat-out all the way, a 3,700-ft run is only 27% of the lap, with no other particularly long straights. Using the current equivalent of the F1 layout, you get a 6,300-ft run, translating to 47% of the lap. So what gives you those compromised setups with IndyCar isn't just the front stretch, but the 950-meter infield stretch (counting from T4 to T7) in addition to it.

[Purist]

Well, I was ready to just let this one lie if nobody else had any comments, but, the latest news out of the Speedway kind of changes that.

I have to wonder at least a little if the change in ownership at Indy will have an impact on the IGTC round. Also, I wouldn't want any of the current venues dropped, but this does bring the thought of a return of IMSA to IMS rather further forward in my contemplation.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Purist

Well, I was ready to just let this one lie if nobody else had any comments, but, the latest news out of the Speedway kind of changes that.

I have to wonder at least a little if the change in ownership at Indy will have an impact on the IGTC round. Also, I wouldn't want any of the current venues dropped, but this does bring the thought of a return of IMSA to IMS rather further forward in my contemplation.

A combined weekend in early May certainly seems to be a possibility for 2021 or 2022. Same might happen at Mid-O.

[Purist]

Mid Ohio seems more likely. I suspect IndyCar may still want to keep the Month of May "holy" to their series alone. I guess we'll see.

And yes, in the nearer term, IMSA looks like it could be in the mix, though with the way Roger has talked about some of it, his long game may be looking at trying to get the WEC. I mean, he's specifically mentioned F1 already.