[BTCC] Brands Hatch 6/7 May 23, Rounds 4/5/6

[Trebor902]

He will be getting a fine or worse if he speaks like that in a live interview

[mick bennett]

Collard needs to grow up , driving was dangerous, let alone track limits excesses.

Forza Ash simply superb, 4th Championship this year. Cammish and Hill very quiet.

[Robin Marriott]

Originally Posted by Evantra

I thought #33 in that Legends crash had pulled up to help the guy out who rolled… never seen someone run away so fast!

Looked to me like he was running for an extinguisher.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

Looked to me like he was running for an extinguisher.

That makes sense.

[Heavyd123]

Surely collard was warned about his other track limits? So it shouldn’t have came as much of a suprise?

[AnnoyedMoose]

Originally Posted by Heavyd123

Surely collard was warned about his other track limits? So it shouldn’t have came as much of a suprise?

TSL showed a warning flag earlier in the session but nothing else that I could see. He definitely deserved a penalty but I'm confused as to how it's 10 seconds.

[GT6]

Just back from brands, Great day and some good racing, although support races were rather unexciting to say the least. Great last btcc race and i though collard drove a fine race, sure he held back sutton but that is why it is called racing, it would be a poor race if he just let sutton pass but that appears to be what some people want.

[Heavyd123]

I guess when he put Sutton on the grass, ash just settled for 2nd on track when he knew he had the win anyway and didn’t want to risk another overtake attempt…

[AnnoyedMoose]

Originally Posted by GT6

Just back from brands, Great day and some good racing, although support races were rather unexciting to say the least. Great last btcc race and i though collard drove a fine race, sure he held back sutton but that is why it is called racing, it would be a poor race if he just let sutton pass but that appears to be what some people want.

Nothing wrong with holding someone back as long as you do it within the rules. Driving way off the track to do it isn't on.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Heavyd123

Surely collard was warned about his other track limits? So it shouldn’t have came as much of a suprise?

According to Tim Harvey, that would have been after the 4th or 5th warning or notification to Collard and the team that he had gone beyond track limits. Having watched both Collard and Sutton in line astern, it was very noticeable that Sutton did not stray over the line anywhere near as much as Collard.

Collard needs to be aware that the rules apply to all the drivers, not just him. Also, I thought that his squeezing Sutton on to the grass on the pit straight was very bad form; the rules forbid that when alongside your competitor. A 10 second penalty, IMHO, would have been justified just for that alone.

[Evantra]

https://www.barc.net/wp-content/uplo...rt-De-Haan.pdf

To no real surprise, De Haan gets a 2 place penalty for overtaking under the safety car.

[AnnoyedMoose]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

According to Tim Harvey, that would have been after the 4th or 5th warning or notification to Collard and the team that he had gone beyond track limits.

The 4th warning is 10 seconds but that is preceded by a 5 second one so I don't see how he got 10 seconds on it's own.

Mind you they seem to be running to a mixture of existing and proposed rules so perhaps the penalty system is different to anything in the Blue Book or in the proposed regs.

[Robin Marriott]

Originally Posted by AnnoyedMoose

The 4th warning is 10 seconds but that is preceded by a 5 second one so I don't see how he got 10 seconds on it's own.

Mind you they seem to be running to a mixture of existing and proposed rules so perhaps the penalty system is different to anything in the Blue Book or in the proposed regs.

The new rules are here - https://www.motorsportuk.org/wp-cont...Limits-3-1.pdf

I can’t make it add up to 10 seconds unless I’ve misunderstood completely.

The team (and the family) will no doubt be disputing this with the officials as we speak.

[touringlegend]

Are track limits disputable as I’m sure there enforced by judges of facts.

[Evantra]

So the option tyres are meant to spice things up… the same four drivers were in the top five positions in each race.

Not that today was lacking action, but if anything the softs just seemed to help the drivers who would be finishing at the front anyway.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

Are track limits disputable as I’m sure there enforced by judges of facts.

And, I believe, by track limit pads at all of the MSV circuits which when activated electronically notifies the race director, and would also record the errant car's transponder number.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Evantra

So the option tyres are meant to spice things up… the same four drivers were in the top five positions in each race.

Not that today was lacking action, but if anything today the softs just seemed to help the drivers who would be finishing at the front anyway.

A number of drivers claimed that they hadn't been able to dial their cars in because they didn't have any dry running with the softs prior to the races, and therefore weren't able to achieve any benefit - in fact the opposite - from their use.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

And, I believe, by track limit pads at all of the MSV circuits which when activated electronically notifies the race director, and would also record the errant car's transponder number.

That's no longer entirely true. The pads are placed further out based on the old rules. With the new rule being any part of the wheel over the line they are using observers to monitor.

[AnnoyedMoose]

Originally Posted by redshoes

That's no longer entirely true. The pads are placed further out based on the old rules. With the new rule being any part of the wheel over the line they are using observers to monitor.

Collard was so far out most of the time he would have been triggering the old rules anyway.

[crmalcolm]

The offence(s) are being reported as [multiple] track limit offences.

IIRC, the penalty would be a drive-through for the 4th offence, which becomes a 10sec if issued in the last 3 laps.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

IIRC, the penalty would be a drive-through for the 4th offence, which becomes a 10sec if issued in the last 3 laps.

Somehow can’t image he would’ve taken that drive-through…

[AnnoyedMoose]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

The offence(s) are being reported as [multiple] track limit offences.

IIRC, the penalty would be a drive-through for the 4th offence, which becomes a 10sec if issued in the last 3 laps.

But they aren't applying the penalties from the proposed regs as far as I can see. Multiple drivers were shown warning flags without time penalties today and that doesn't exist in the new regs. It's an immediate penalty.

Plus if it was a drive through for in lieu of a drive through what about time penalties that precede that in the old and new rules?

Seems to me as though there is a 3rd set of rules somewhere as what has happened doesn't match with the old rules or proposed rules as far as I can see.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by AnnoyedMoose

But they aren't applying the penalties from the proposed regs as far as I can see. Multiple drivers were shown warning flags without time penalties today and that doesn't exist in the new regs. It's an immediate penalty.

Plus if it was a drive through for in lieu of a drive through what about time penalties that precede that in the old and new rules?

The key point is that in old and new regs, it says penalties may be penalised as...

That gives scope for officials to apply a different scale of penalties.

[AnnoyedMoose]

...

[SSmith]

All in all an interesting day of racing yesterday. Some great performances, some terrible performances, and some drivers/teams with a lot of work to do.

Driver of the day for me was Sutton, great performance from him in all three races. Special mentions to Osborne for having the best weekend of his career, and to Thompson for achieving his best ever finish.

Still way too early to call anything serious for the championship - but I think the top 5 (Sutton, Ingram, Cammish, Hill, Turkington) just seemed a cut above the rest this weekend.

My (subjective) scores out of 10 for drivers this weekend.

#1 - Tom Ingram - 9/10
#3 - Tom Chilton - 7.5/10
#14 - Ronan Pearson - 7/10
#22 - Nick Halstead - 5/10

#4 - Colin Turkington - 9/10
#12 - Stephen Jelley - 5/10
#24 - Jake Hill - 8.5/10
#33 - Adam Morgan - 7/10

#6 - Rory Butcher - 7/10
#37 - Ricky Collard - 8/10
#42 - George Gamble - 7/10

#27 - Dan Cammish - 9/10
#32 - Dan Rowbottom - 5/10
#77 - Sam Osborne - 7.5/10
#116 - Ash Sutton - 10/10

#11 - Andrew Watson - 5/10
#40 - Aron Taylor-Smith - 6/10
#88 - Mikey Doble - 6.5/10

#16 - Aiden Moffat - 6.5/10
#66 - Josh Cook - 7.5/10
#70 - Will Powell - 5/10

#17 - Dexter Patterson - 6/10
#99 - Jade Edwards - 5/10

#19 - Bobby Thompson - 9/10
#123 - Dan Lloyd - 7.5/10

#28 - Nicolas Hamilton - 5/10
#96 - Jack Butel - 6/10

I think I've been generous to a couple of drivers but on the whole everyone did an OK job and retirements were minimal outside race 1.