New Cost Saving Agreement

[old man]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Problem is that the cars would be slower than FPA, F3 etc.

And there are probably series like this already!!

The more money that is thrown at a race series, the less like a race series it becomes. The best car races are those seen at club events around the world, not in f1. Minuscule budgets, closely matched cars, low horsepower, limited aero. And yet the racing is so much better. But, and this is the big one - NO-ONE wants to watch proper racing, or there would be more spectators at club events. They are just not shiny enough.

Have to agree that the best racing is not neccessarily the most expensive, I have watched some wonderful class 1 kart races in my time and the FF festival in its old guise was always a feast.

F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of motor sport technology and a free-for-all tecnical battle would only end in domination by one or two teams with no new ones coming into the sport. We almost reached that position just a few years ago, now we have full grids and the best battle for the championship we have seen in years. In the end we need a compromise between fully regulated technology and freedom of design. Some areas need to be free to reflect current economic problems like energy consumption. I tend to agree that restrictions on aero development are needed though

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

The equally artificial and unenforceable budget cap?

It's interesting that they have all agreed to an artificial limit and agreed to self police it. It's not impossible to do that is it?

At the end of the day (apart from it getting dark) we are only watching racing cars being driven around a track where nearly 100% of the focus is on which driver comes out on top.

How many threads have we had where there have been arguments as to which F1 car is better than another compared to which driver is better than another?

We have a 'driver of the race' thread and a 'rate the race' thread, but no 'car of the race' thread. Despite the fact that the car is 90% of what a driver is able to achieve and has a large bearing on how well a race actually went.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Problem is that the cars would be slower than FPA, F3 etc.

And there are probably series like this already!!

The more money that is thrown at a race series, the less like a race series it becomes. The best car races are those seen at club events around the world, not in f1. Minuscule budgets, closely matched cars, low horsepower, limited aero. And yet the racing is so much better. But, and this is the big one - NO-ONE wants to watch proper racing, or there would be more spectators at club events. They are just not shiny enough.

There is nothing like that at the moment.... nUnless you look at Throufhbred and classic racing.

Simply put though, a formula that eliminated wings or reduced such downforce by 50-60%, eliminated other aero grip etc would reduce cornering speed enormously, require far more driver skill than at present, but such vehicles would result in a wave or development in the area of mechanical grip and such advances would be of more benefit to racing than the current formula, and be more spectacular.

You could lose 10-20 seconds a lap and the public would scarcely notice....

Similarly, all formula could have the change applied through some FIA edict regarding wings/aero influence and it would change race car design and development.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Marbot

It's interesting that they have all agreed to an artificial limit and agreed to self police it. It's not impossible to do that is it?

In case we have so much convindence in teams and if we can actually trust them, why are regulations necessary then?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Hi Wnut, if you're going to make aero more spec then F1 is going to become a spec series very soon, with identical cars made by different manufacturers. I therefore think a freeing up in engine and/or chassis design needs to be freed up; innovation needs to be encouraged.

Other than who has the biggest most expensive and accurate wind tunnel and simulation software devoted to tiny aero gains it is a spec series.
If they got rid of any wing structure in front of the rear of the front wheels, and widened the tyres by about 4 inches, then we may actually see racing. Your idea of freeing up areas such as engine configuration would also make it more interesting.

To my way of thinking the car is a piece of equipment that equates to a tennis racquet in a tennis match, or rather should. At the moment it is just about who has the best aero package in qualifying. Everything else is pretty irrelevant. It should be the pinnacle of motor racing for the WORLD DRIVERS CHAMPIONSHIP, not the best wind tunnel and aero championship.


When F1 was 1500cc in the early 60s nobody was over stressed that the sports cars were faster round the Nurburgring. If this is a concern, wider tyres and bigger engines (3.5 litre?) revving at 18000 plus rpm would fix the problem!
Racing will bring spectators back! A new 15 mm aero tab - not so much.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

In case we have so much convindence in teams and if we can actually trust them, why are regulations necessary then?

F1 isn't a spec sport and sometimes people make mistakes.

Most regulations are usually complied with and only occasionally does someone overstep the mark. Hopefully the new resource restriction agreement will work about as effectively as the tech regs do.

The idea that any loopholes arising not being reported is to be punished is a good way of leaving a noose lying around to hang themselves with if they think that they can get away with something. It should be applied to all regulations.

[Pingguest]

However, the FIA is not involved. The RRA is not a part of the regulations and the FIA doesn't enforce it. The teams could hire a number of accountants, assuming they could trace everything, what penalty could a team possibly get? A fine, to make them spend even more money?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

However, the FIA is not involved. The RRA is not a part of the regulations and the FIA doesn't enforce it. The teams could hire a number of accountants, assuming they could trace everything, what penalty could a team possibly get? A fine, to make them spend even more money?

Hypothetical - military aerodynamics company A consults to two F1 teams B and C. A has aerodynamic modelling software worth hundreds of millioms of dollars. Both A and B benefit from work, how is it costed. Company A is a sponsor, government subsidiary etc. etc. - Good Luck.