Code 60 for UK

[deley]

Another reason gaps may close or grow is when one car weaves in an attempt to keep tyre temp up and the preceding (or following) car doesn't.

Overall the C60 worked pretty well again at the weekend from a marshalling perspective and shows that if the Club puts the effort into implementation (working with the drivers, radios for each flag point, decent flags, etc) then C60 can work.

Dave

[coppice]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Interesting - thanks for that analysis, Alasdair.

Confess it hadn't occured to me that taking the non-racing line could make such a difference in lap distance........I wonder how the circuit length is actually calculated.......inside kerb, outside kerb, a theoretical mid-line of the circuit?

A fascinating point ; given the width and length of Silverstone GP one wonders how accurate the average speed is when it's quoted in context of a lap time to 3 decimal places?

[JamieStewart9]

Both the FIM & FIA calculate the lap distance by measuring the inside white line distance and the outside white line distance, add them together and divide by 2 = Official Lap Distance.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by JamieStewart9

Both the FIM & FIA calculate the lap distance by measuring the inside white line distance and the outside white line distance, add them together and divide by 2 = Official Lap Distance.

Now if that's not the most interesting fact I've ever discovered on here.

[richrad smith]

Apparently it has been, in the last week amended with immediate effect

[Tal Aras]

Originally Posted by richrad smith

Apparently it has been, in the last week amended with immediate effect

There on the MSA website. Interestingly they've now specified the procedure for deploying the Code 60, as requiring 15 seconds warning and a countdown from 5.

Having had to flag a FCY (Blainpain race whose regs just say there is a countdown) on no warning this looks like an improvement but will mean if the Clerk of Course wants everyone to slow down immediately, it'll still need a Safety Car.

[deley]

Originally Posted by Tal Aras

There on the MSA website. Interestingly they've now specified the procedure for deploying the Code 60, as requiring 15 seconds warning and a countdown from 5.

Having had to flag a FCY (Blainpain race whose regs just say there is a countdown) on no warning this looks like an improvement but will mean if the Clerk of Course wants everyone to slow down immediately, it'll still need a Safety Car.

I'm not sure why you think "if the CoC wants everyone to slow down immediately" that putting the Safety Car out will achieve this. The SC doesn't slow everyone down immediately (unless it just happens that all cars are neatly following each other and the SC is launched in front of them) but will normally end up with cars circulating at near enough race speed until they catch the train.
Even with a countdown the C60 is the quickest way to slow all cars (indeed C60 would probably slow cars more than a red does).

[Adam43]

I think the rationale for the SC slowing everyone down immediately is that no advantage can be had by not doing that. A driver sees the sign and backs off knowing eventually everyone is in the queue however 'quickly' they slow down.

[richrad smith]

attached is the paper which came from my primary club in the wake of the Amendment to the Code 60 Rules

[Greem]

Originally Posted by richrad smith

Apparently it has been, in the last week amended with immediate effect

https://www.msauk.org/assets/rulechangesaugust2017.pdf

Amended - not really, just clarified and made slightly easier to understand. Key points:

Originally Posted by MSA Regs Update August 2017

its use will have been confirmed in the SR’s, and its operation in accordance with Appendix 3, Operation of Code 60 and explained in the drivers briefing.

Originally Posted by MSA Regs Update August 2017

The Code 60 Flag (Code 60) will be brought into operation to neutralise a race at the sole decision of the Clerk of the Course provided that all flag points are in direct communication with race control.

The emboldening of the word 'direct' there is intentional and mirrors the addition of the word into the regulation.

[deley]

Originally Posted by Greem

https://www.msauk.org/assets/rulechangesaugust2017.pdf

Amended - not really, just clarified and made slightly easier to understand. Key points:





The emboldening of the word 'direct' there is intentional and mirrors the addition of the word into the regulation.

Amended somewhat...

The display of the C60 flag has changed from the previous MSA "notes" issued in April this year in that it has changed from just being stationary to now being "waved .....will continue to be waved for a minimum of one lap and until all cars have visibly slowed down, following which the flag will then be held stationary".

Dave

[Greem]

Originally Posted by deley

The display of the C60 flag has changed from the previous MSA "notes" issued in April this year in that it has changed from just being stationary to now being "waved .....will continue to be waved for a minimum of one lap and until all cars have visibly slowed down, following which the flag will then be held stationary".

Which is, largely, what we were told in briefings. I've never held the C60 stationary on first display, because I've always been told to wave it for the first lap or until it's obvious everyone has slowed down.

I guess that's why the reg has been rewritten!

[deley]

Originally Posted by Greem

Which is, largely, what we were told in briefings. I've never held the C60 stationary on first display, because I've always been told to wave it for the first lap or until it's obvious everyone has slowed down.

I guess that's why the reg has been rewritten!

Which version of "C60 flag display" will have depended on which club and which meeting one was at ....

Yes you're right though .... that's why the need for the update.

Dave

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I think the rationale for the SC slowing everyone down immediately is that no advantage can be had by not doing that. A driver sees the sign and backs off knowing eventually everyone is in the queue however 'quickly' they slow down.

That's probably the rationale, but it's not what happens. SC regulation should also include an instruction to drive at significantly reduced pace until the train is caught.

[Adam43]

The compromise here is that it needs to be slow enough to be safe, but you also want to get all the drivers in one group so the recovery can start and have a big gap between passes each lap. The marshals can start the clean up earlier and the drivers are more likely to get more race laps.

The most common problem I've seen here is a driver going so slowly he doesn't catch up with the SC! Being the one behind that can be very frustrating. Drivers who'd have 'em

Not that this is a reason to not doing anything, or an argument that one method is better than another.

[exflagman]

Don't worry folks - it will all be solved when the FIA 'autonomous SC' initiative gets rolled out across all levels of motorsport .

[Terrible-Tones]

Originally Posted by Adam43

The compromise here is that it needs to be slow enough to be safe, but you also want to get all the drivers in one group so the recovery can start and have a big gap between passes each lap. The marshals can start the clean up earlier and the drivers are more likely to get more race laps.

The most common problem I've seen here is a driver going so slowly he doesn't catch up with the SC! Being the one behind that can be very frustrating. Drivers who'd have 'em

Not that this is a reason to not doing anything, or an argument that one method is better than another.

Flipside, and the other issue is,

"Ooh SC - Lets pit and change tyres etc, then I can leave the pits, drive absolute out until I catch up with the train...thus wasting less time"

[Woolley]

I still shake my head at the WEC clear up after the big Toyota shunt at Copse. Cars trundling around at 80k, all is quite good. To make it even safer, they switched to SC. At which point everything back from the leader set off at race speed to catch up. They were absolutely charging into the danger area full chat, and there was nothing that could be done to slow them down as we were already waving yellows because the Safety Car was out and everyone waves a yellow (as well as showing the board).

[deley]

Originally Posted by Adam43

The compromise here is that it needs to be slow enough to be safe, but you also want to get all the drivers in one group so the recovery can start and have a big gap between passes each lap. The marshals can start the clean up earlier and the drivers are more likely to get more race laps.

The most common problem I've seen here is a driver going so slowly he doesn't catch up with the SC! Being the one behind that can be very frustrating. Drivers who'd have 'em

Not that this is a reason to not doing anything, or an argument that one method is better than another.

Depending on the specifics of a particular incident there may be no need to get all the cars in one group, incident can be dealt with (can include recovery, oil dressing, etc) where cars are circulating at 60kph with gaps in traffic known and fixed (OK, yes there may be cars who exit pits which may appear where a gap used to be....but they're still just doing 60kph).

Bottom line though, Code 60 is just another option available to the CoC if applicable to a particular meeting/race - the specifics of a particular incident will determine if it is an appropriate option to use.

[deley]

Originally Posted by Woolley

I still shake my head at the WEC clear up after the big Toyota shunt at Copse. Cars trundling around at 80k, all is quite good. To make it even safer, they switched to SC. At which point everything back from the leader set off at race speed to catch up. They were absolutely charging into the danger area full chat, and there was nothing that could be done to slow them down as we were already waving yellows because the Safety Car was out and everyone waves a yellow (as well as showing the board).

Sums up why the SC is generally less safe from a marshalling perspective than C60.

Of course if the regulations concerning the Yellow flag were followed and enforced we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place ....

[Lancsbreaker]

I was watching the Magnificent Sevens race at Donington on Saturday when the Code 60 was implemented. I was shocked at how many drivers appeared through the chicane exit onto the pit straight obviously at full race pace, at least a minute after I saw the first flag shown, so they should have seen several flags down exhibition straight and at the chicane.........

However I did note that both flags on the pit straight that I could see were not waved, but held static - at least until the second or third offender when the pit wall marshal became rather more agitated with it........I think in the relatively low light conditions (it was after 6pm on a dull day, and with what sun there was in the drivers' eyes on the two straights) the purple flag, when stationary, does not stand out. The instruction says the flag should be waved until all drivers have clearly reduced speed. I think this needs stressing.

I did raise the point in our pre-race brief on Sunday.....

Oh and in the Mag 7 race, three drivers were penalised for speeding under the Code 60..........I'd have expected more.....