Job Opportunities

[johnw]

"Become a Timekeeper
Ever wondered what the timekeepers actually do?
Interested in working at motorsport events but don't want to stand in the wind and rain?
This found on the MST site. www.mst-group.co.uk

Nice dry job for you Chigley?

[Chigley]

You cheeky git, are you trying to imply something!!!???

[JimW]

But you have to concentrate to be a timekeeper. Observers are allowed to say that they were looking the other way.

(Yes, I know, but we can't always rely on the guide dog to cover for us.)

Jim

[ascarracinguk]

yeh..when i broke my wrist last year...i couldnt marshal so i did the pit buzzer in the timekeepers room at donington.....hmmm the women with stopwatches doing it all by hand did most of teh work...the bloke just had to know how to use a computer and printer.....i wouldnt do it tho...i wanna watch brainless idiots play instead....!

[johnw]

Chiggers
Just looking out for an old mate as the years creep on!
John

[Mark Mitchell]

If you do apply Ian, don't hold your breath for a reply from them.
They never reply to an email!!

[Richard Sneader]

Anyone interested in timekeeping and you will get a reply please pm me as my wife is a MSA timekeeper for MST.
RS

[johnw]

rzsio
What a find you are.
Could we get some definition from your good lady of how the whole transponder thing works?
I was led to believe that by use of the transponders we would lose the need for timekeepers and that we would benefit from the reduction in their fees.

I was also under the impression that the transponder crossing the loop would indicate the time and uniquely identify the car (couldn't see this as there is no means of aligning transponder number to car number. However, it cannot be difficult.)
I assume that the purpose of the timekeepers on site is to note the car number when the transponder software spits out a time? If this is so, where does the cost saving occur?
Advice gratefully received.
John

[Richard Sneader]

As with Marshals there is a lack of timekeepers to cover race meetings all over the country, with the introduction of transponders over all the teams have decreased from approx 6/7 timekeepers (including chief) to 4/5 timekeepers, however the clubs still have to hire the same equipment from MST to download the software to recognise the transponders and all the times that crossing the beam creates, as there are still drivers out there who do not have them or have intermitent transponders and we are still needed to give their times. plus if you have any queries manual backup is always appreciated. Pits are not covered by Transponders so if you were to go through the pits you would not create a time and therefore could end up a lap down? there are numerous reasons as to why timekeepers are still required, however the numbers are dropping and again like marshalling the generations move on and you need new.
Hope this helps with your queries

[johnw]

Thank you rzsio (or Mrs Rzsio)
Understand the manual back up requirement. But still have a few questions.

Could you please explain the purpose of the beam? (I thought that the transponder triggered a signal by crossing a loop in the track surface.)
Is there any reason why the pit lane couldn't be included?
Why can't the transponder identify the car?
Why don't we get individual lap times printed on the timesheets at the circuit? Some series provide this info, most do not.
Much appreciate your response.

[Chigley]

Originally posted by johnw
Chiggers
Just looking out for an old mate as the years creep on!
John

As far as I am aware senile dementia, the use of a white stick and assistance of a zimmer frame are still a few years away, that would qualify me as an observer. But as a timekeeper.... I have enough trouble trying to keep track of the the front and rear of the grid let alone the mid pack and then time them????

Thank you for the offer and thinking of my well being but I'll pass for a few years. Maybe think about it when I get my pension; that'll give me the credentials to become an observer (never), then perhaps take up the cushy life and become a tintop driver.



Chuckle, chuckle.

[johnw]

Mmmmm
I think that the key phrase here is "As far as I am aware"....

[JimW]

Originally posted by johnw
Thank you rzsio (or Mrs Rzsio)
Understand the manual back up requirement. But still have a few questions.

Could you please explain the purpose of the beam? (I thought that the transponder triggered a signal by crossing a loop in the track surface.)
Is there any reason why the pit lane couldn't be included?
Why can't the transponder identify the car?
Why don't we get individual lap times printed on the timesheets at the circuit? Some series provide this info, most do not.
Much appreciate your response.

John

Have a look at http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...022&perpage=20 which may address some of your queries.

But do we need timekeepers at all? See http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...ers#post829281

Regards

Jim

[johnw]

Jimw
Thank you for the links. I did search for transponders but didn't find these. Best I have a girls look next time!

The transponder one generates even more questions, which hopefully will be answered by the rzsio duo.
I really like the idea of the no timekeeper approach, especially if it results in lower entry fees.

Agreeing on the principle of grid formation might prove tricky though. I guess that the easiest would be from the finishing positions of the last race, but I fear that the MSA might block this on the basis that a non-finishing fast car, could be potentially starting from the back, something which I know worries them.
I'll float the idea to the BARC and see what response I get.
John

[Richard Sneader]

Originally posted by johnw
Thank you rzsio (or Mrs Rzsio)
Understand the manual back up requirement. But still have a few questions.

Could you please explain the purpose of the beam? (I thought that the transponder triggered a signal by crossing a loop in the track surface.)
Is there any reason why the pit lane couldn't be included?
Why can't the transponder identify the car?
Why don't we get individual lap times printed on the timesheets at the circuit? Some series provide this info, most do not.
Much appreciate your response.

At your next race meeting, go to timekeeping and they can explain the whole process lots of computers and systems, they are all really nice and helpful and chatty.
re above: The beam generates a time, aswell as the transponder, that identifies the car as it crosses the loop and matches the times and the car number through the systems.
It is up to the clerk of the course if they want to issue lap analysis or not, we can provide this and do when requested
you need timekeepers like you need marshals - jimw

[JimW]

Originally posted by rzsio396
. . .you need timekeepers like you need marshals - jimw

No offence intended but actually for some cases I'm not sure that I agree with you.

If (and its a big if I know) you could get drivers to agree a way of making up a grid without practice time, then it seems to me what you need are lap scorers, not practice times.

After all it happens about once a year when fog or some such turns practice into three laps behind a course car. Drivers all seem to agree a grid (championship points, last race, whatever) and the racing has never seemed to suffer.

Teams all have (almost all?) their own timing equipment which is as accurate as they need for gaining an idea of which of the latest demon tweeks they are using is working or not.

I'm not on any kind of crusade but I have thought this for years and rarely had any convincing argument against except that it would not be possible to agree on a grid.

Regards

Jim

[mark_l]

What about teams less honest having one beacon at each end of the pitwall, one sets off the timer whilst the other stops the timer. result is a new lap reocrd because they have just shortened the lap by a few dozen yards.

We need independant timekeepers, otherwise the nutters would be running the asylum

[Richard Sneader]

Hi Jim,
No offence taken by me( wife thats different) have you ever thought of doing a days timekeeping to really understand why they are needed and what happens and where some decisions come from. They are also a judge of fact.
RS

[johnw]

Thanks again rzio(s)
Didn't doubt for a minute that the timekeepers would be anything but friendly, as has every marshal, observer and incident person I've met. (No offence to any other job role I've missed.) I'll do as you suggest and go and see them, as your answer begs more questions relating to my original enquiry which I am happy to pursue with the timekeepers.
Out of interest, is there a cost implication in requesting lap analysis?

JimW and mark_l
Don't think that we can rely on the competitors to time themselves, but we could easily verify the times of each other.

Mrs rzsio
Please don't be offended, this isn't personal. Just trying to understand how the explanation we were given regarding our "investment" in transponders translates to lower costs.

[JimW]

Originally posted by rzsio396
Hi Jim,
No offence taken by me( wife thats different) have you ever thought of doing a days timekeeping to really understand why they are needed and what happens and where some decisions come from. They are also a judge of fact.
RS

I've actually done two days with timekeepers in previous years (long ago and just to see what went on). Conclusively confirmed that I would not be suited as I have the attention span of a startled butterfly. Now I could probably hack the computing side of it but it would be a shame to mix work and pleasure.

Regards

Jim

[JimW]

Originally posted by johnw
. . .
JimW and mark_l
Don't think that we can rely on the competitors to time themselves, but we could easily verify the times of each other.
. . .

John

I would not suggest that team's times were for anything but their use in performance measurement. We would still have to agree the way of constructing the grid.

Regards

Jim

[Piglet]

Originally posted by JimW
We would still have to agree the way of constructing the grid.
Jim

...and reconstituting in the event of a red flag after 3 laps but before 50/75%

[JimW]

Originally posted by Piglet
...and reconstituting in the event of a red flag after 3 laps but before 50/75%

Is that not what Judges could do? And bring back lap scorers as a timekeeping discipline.

Jim