IMSA DPi Discussion

[chernaudi]

I've seen and heard enough rumors to know that some have substance, and some are pure vaporware. Even if Lamborghini (which is run by the Audi end of Volkswagen Group) have genuine interest in DPI and GTE, there's still an important jump from rumor to fact.

And we do have to be fair in that Bentley DPI rumor got shut down pretty quickly IIRC.

It'll make an interesting addition to the DPI class should it happen. Until then, I'll believe it when I see an official press release from Lamborghini. They've also been rumored to have a GTE/GTLM program off and on for a few years, but that hasn't come into being yet, either.

And when it comes to rumors, IMO, Pruett and Dagys have similar track records as far as being right and wrong. But I guess that's why they're called rumors, and as such, should be taken with a grain of salt until someone officially says something or the rumor is debunked.

For all I know, Audi Sport might be preparing to re-enter LMP1 or DPI themselves, and Ferrari might throw their hat into the ring, too. I'm not exactly holding my breath, however.

Whatever will be, will be, and what ever happens, happens. If the Lamborghini rumors prove true, great. If not, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it.

[Akrapovic]

The Bentley one was silly. They said they were evaluating it. But I'm sure every company did. That shouldn't have become as big a rumour as it did.

[Scorchess]

We don't even have that from Lamborghini.

We had a headline 'Audi considering DPi' when in that article it said 'VAG is nog considering DPi'.

[Jonerz]

I wouldn't call it a silly rumor:

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/ex...ions-for-2017/

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/fu...pe-evaluation/

Clearly IMSA was evaluated, and the VAG interest, as has been trailed, could wind up represented by another brand.

Chris

[TF110]

All these "evaluations" that are talked about just get people's hopes up. If they even have a Honda/Acura dpi next year I'll be surprised.

[FormulaFox]

"Evaluating" ultimately means nothing of note. Any manufacturer seriously interested in racing has evaluated any class that they could build a car for. As TF110 says, reporting on this stuff just gets people's hopes up for something that in the majority of cases will go nowhere.

If every manufacturer that has evaluated DPi started a program, the class would be looking like a Prototype version of GT3. Whatever happens down the line, I think we can all agree it's highly unlikely we'll get anything like that.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

The Bentley one was silly. They said they were evaluating it. But I'm sure every company did. That shouldn't have become as big a rumour as it did.

We have to make it a big rumour, or what would we have to talk about?

[Akrapovic]

I'm starting a new one. Citreon is evaluating a DPi program. Lada to offer technical support.

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I'm starting a new one. Citreon is evaluating a DPi program. Lada to offer technical support.

There's an IMSA dream team thread for that! Haha

[canaglia]

Remember in late 2015 that bentley racing (the work personnel who help M-sport during spa 24 hours) was going to test the V8 4L twin turbo of bentley gt3 in a lmp3 chassis to evaluate a possible IMSA program.
Considering that in late 2015, DPi rules weren't even finalized yet, guess it all ended in vapor. Maybe there wasn't any team really interested, as happened last year for the rumored AMG dpi program.

[Juntos]

How many manufacturers are evaluating a DPi programme? Five? Six? Honda/Acura, Alfa Romeo, Hyundai, Lamborghini, Bentley, Audi, etc. The list is long. The best ground bears weeds as well as flowers.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Remember in late 2015 that bentley racing (the work personnel who help M-sport during spa 24 hours) was going to test the V8 4L twin turbo of bentley gt3 in a lmp3 chassis to evaluate a possible IMSA program.
Considering that in late 2015, DPi rules weren't even finalized yet, guess it all ended in vapor. Maybe there wasn't any team really interested, as happened last year for the rumored AMG dpi program.

There are two teams, both that are on the IMSA grid this year (in Prototype) that chased the AMG brand pretty hard, but Mercedes decided against it - instead supporting GTD exclusively.

Keep in mind y'all, this is year one of the DPi category. GT3 looked very different in 2006 than it does in 2017. Clearly the product has potential, just give it time to flower.

Chris

[RWill2073]

If Honda come in, could we award points at the 30 minute mark to give Mazda and Honda a championship race they could participate in?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

If Honda come in, could we award points at the 30 minute mark to give Mazda and Honda a championship race they could participate in?

Their P car engine won 3/4 of the enduros in IMSA competition in 2016...

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Matt

Their P car engine won 3/4 of the enduros in IMSA competition in 2016...

Yeah, but in DPi they'll have to do it with a fair bit more power. I wouldn't be too declarative one way or another about how it'll come out.

[chernaudi]

If there is a Honda/Acura DPI, it'll probably use the Earth Dreams twin turbo V6 out of the NSX. And it's well known that GT3 based engines can usually handle a lot more power than they're usually restricted to.

In GT3 spec, the Audi R8, BMW M6, Mercedes-Benz AMG GT, and others are making nearly 600bhp. Granted, such cars are de-tuned considerably for GTD due to inter-class BOP (separate GT3s from GTEs in terms of speed), but in full GT3 spec, most of those cars are already making about the same power as the Cadillac DPI and doing so reliably.

[TF110]

So will it be a Honda or Acura? I think there's arguments for both. I just hope that it joins. I feel like if it doesn't start testing soon, it will be another team trundling behind the Cadillac's.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Yeah, but in DPi they'll have to do it with a fair bit more power. I wouldn't be too declarative one way or another about how it'll come out.

Perhaps 9% more, I suppose that is not insignificant.

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Granted, such cars are de-tuned considerably for GTD due to inter-class BOP (separate GT3s from GTEs in terms of speed), but in full GT3 spec, most of those cars are already making about the same power as the Cadillac DPI and doing so reliably.

I wouldn't take that for granted.

Originally Posted by TF110

So will it be a Honda or Acura? I think there's arguments for both. I just hope that it joins. I feel like if it doesn't start testing soon, it will be another team trundling behind the Cadillac's.

Acura's involvement in the LMP2 program of a decade ago was to develop their reputation as a premium brand. Honda is in the midst of refocusing itself as an upper level engineering firm, that just happens to build and mass market road cars as a primary engineering field. With the Civic Type R and Civic Si (enthusiast cars) debuting this year, I wouldn't be surprised to see it branded as a some kind of Honda Type R DPi.

Chris

[Matt]

It's going to be a Honda.

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

I wouldn't take that for granted.


Chris

The current Audi R8 GT3 is quoted as making 580bhp. The Cadillac DPI is quoted as making 600bhp. I don't see why it'd be hard for Audi for example to coax an extra 20bhp out of the GT3 engine--a simple air restrictor change can make up that difference.

However, I have no quotes for how much power the NSX GT3 is making in full GT3 spec. The road car on engine power alone makes 500.

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by Matt

It's going to be a Honda.

Depends on what the marketing people at Honda of America want to call it. DPI is a North America formula, and Acura is currently marketed mainly in North America. Also, the NSX is built on the grounds of Honda's Marysville, Ohio, plant.

However, Acura and Honda are inseparable aside from brand name--Acuras outside of the NSX are basically tarted up Hondas, and all of Honda's and Acura's NA stuff for racing is handled by HPD.

But if the NSX engine will be used, I do have to ask if there's a Honda that currently uses the NSX engine, as it seems that the engine currently is unique to the NSX.

That being said, DPI is largely driven by marketing, and even if no Honda badged car sold in NA uses the NSX Earth Dreams engine, Honda and Acura are so intertwined that it probably won't matter who's name is on the car.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

If there is a Honda/Acura DPI, it'll probably use the Earth Dreams twin turbo V6 out of the NSX. And it's well known that GT3 based engines can usually handle a lot more power than they're usually restricted to.

In GT3 spec, the Audi R8, BMW M6, Mercedes-Benz AMG GT, and others are making nearly 600bhp. Granted, such cars are de-tuned considerably for GTD due to inter-class BOP (separate GT3s from GTEs in terms of speed), but in full GT3 spec, most of those cars are already making about the same power as the Cadillac DPI and doing so reliably.

All good points, but Honda's kind of been known for bucking the trend with their Prototypes, for better or worse. Remember when LMP2 moved to the production-derived engine spec? HPD produced a small surprise by basing their new P2 engine off a MINIVAN engine. I wouldn't put it past them to try something unexpected with a DPi. Might work out well, might backfire completely.

And even if they do use the proven GT3 engine, packaging could force them to change something(most likely turbo piping and/or cooling feed) that could have a negative effect. There's not quite as much space in the back of an LMP2 as there is in the back of the NSX, after all.

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Depends on what the marketing people at Honda of America want to call it. DPI is a North America formula, and Acura is currently marketed mainly in North America. Also, the NSX is built on the grounds of Honda's Marysville, Ohio, plant.

It's going to be HPD. Honda long since stopped worrying about using the Acura brand on the prototypes here in the States, and unless they go to extremes to make the design reminiscent of an Acura there'll be no real reason to switch back for the DPi.

Also, every single insider hint dropped -reliable and otherwise- says it's going to be an HPD DPi.

[Scorchess]

So far there's been no word of anything besides a single quote somewhere in January.

This whole episode sounds like something going on in the fantasy of a few people. With that hilarious article about the 'driver pairings' as only outcome so far.

[chernaudi]

I do see a DPI program from HPD is being a lot more likely right now than one from Volkswagen Group. People have tried to tie Audi Sport, Bentley Motorsport and Lamborghini to a DPI program. That's not to say that it won't happen. But I don't see a VAG DPI program happening soon, not unless someone's helping to foot the bill. Audi Sport will probably be back in LMP1 before we see a VAG DPI program for all I know.

But HPD don't have VAG or Toyota sized motorsports budgets, and probably don't want to spend that level of money even if they did, and they do have a GT3 car that they can take the engine out of and probably have a competitive DPI effort in short order. Not to mention that the NSX Earth Dreams engine is more race ready than the old LMP2 engine, which was a sedan/minivan engine modified as little as possible. Granted, until BOP came in, it was about useless against the Nissan VK45, which is about as removed from a stock block engine as one can get and still claim it was a stock block engine (it was basically a de-tuned Super GT GT500 engine).

[RWill2073]

Wouldn't it be better to do the bodywork to style it like an nsx instead of a Honda?