IMSA USCC in 2016 and 2017

[joeb]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Ehhhhhh..... No. It's 2017.

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

That is incorrect Joe. "In 2017, the Mazda Prototype Lites presented by Cooper Tires will evolve and be rebranded as IMSA Prototype Challenge presented by Mazda. The sprint-race series will feature two, 45-minute races per event weekend with a two-class format including Le Mans Prototype 3 (LM P3) race cars in the “PC1” class, and cars that currently race in the Prototype Lites L1 class will comprise the “PC2” class. Existing Prototype Lites L2 class cars no longer will be eligible after the 2016 season is completed."

L.P.

Thanks guys, I guess I put 2 and 2 together to get 5 in my mind!

[Bob Baldwin]

Formula Fox : Just what did you learn today about the LMP'3 ?

[joeb]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Ligier. Don't be surprised if most of the people who go for it use the Ligier - they seem to have the market cornered right now.

And given what I learned about LMP3 in VdeV today, I hope IMSA plans to give the P3s a power boost, or there could be embarrassing times ahead. In two of four race weekends this year, the P3 cars were two seconds slower than the CN cars. In the two where P3 was faster, one was by less than two seconds, the other just short of five seconds. It's pretty clear that the track layout and surface conditions has a pretty big influence on this matter.

As I've noted before, CN cars generally post similar lap times to the Elan DP02, so unless US circuits are VERY suitable to the P3s, the "lower" class could be fighting for the overall win rather frequently without a boost to the P3s. If that happens, we end up coming right back around to the question of what's the point of P3 in Lites? Of course this serves to reinforce the notion that P3 shouldn't be in WSC unless they REALLY boost the speed, as well.

If the Elan cars can match the P3's on pace, good for them. And good for us watching. But the reasons for somebody to choose the P3 over the Elan are multiple: closed canopy and safety reasons, modern electronics and control systems, possibility to run the car around the world in other series, resale value, chassis options, and I'm sure I've missed some other reasons.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Bob Baldwin

Formula Fox : Just what did you learn today about the LMP'3 today ?

Guess I wasn't quick enough with the edit. I double-checked the info and edited it into the post, so just scroll back up and have a read.

[Bob Baldwin]

joeb : Chasis Options ? Explain Please !

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by joeb

If the Elan cars can match the P3's on pace, good for them. And good for us watching. But the reasons for somebody to choose the P3 over the Elan are multiple: closed canopy and safety reasons, modern electronics and control systems, possibility to run the car around the world in other series, resale value, chassis options, and I'm sure I've missed some other reasons.

The problem, however, is that one must pay more than double the price to get an LMP3 while concerns like closed cockpits aren't on the minds of most people racing on that level.

But those other things can all be acquired for an identical price to the Elan DP02 if the series switch to -say it with me again- Group CN. CN cars have very modern electronics systems, a wide variety of international championships, good resale value, etc. And closed canopies are an option in CN, as well - though only one company produces one at this time(Ligier, and it's hideous). Oreca designed a pretty sharp closed-top CN concept, but they never built it.

But time will tell. I'd like to think IMSA is smart enough to boost the power of the LMP3s if they're serious about this. VdeV keeps them in ACO spec because it keeps them in line with the performance of the GT class they compete in.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Bob Baldwin

joeb : Chasis Options ? Explain Please !

In P3 you can choose between 6 different chassis. In the current Lites cars you can only use 1 chassis

[joeb]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

The problem, however, is that one must pay more than double the price to get an LMP3 while concerns like closed cockpits aren't on the minds of most people racing on that level.

But those other things can all be acquired for an identical price to the Elan DP02 if the series switch to -say it with me again- Group CN. CN cars have very modern electronics systems, a wide variety of international championships, good resale value, etc. And closed canopies are an option in CN, as well - though only one company produces one at this time(Ligier, and it's hideous). Oreca designed a pretty sharp closed-top CN concept, but they never built it.

But time will tell. I'd like to think IMSA is smart enough to boost the power of the LMP3s if they're serious about this. VdeV keeps them in ACO spec because it keeps them in line with the performance of the GT class they compete in.

You can keep saying CN all you want, just please stop saying it here. Imsa isn't doing it, no matter how much sense it makes to you. Move on.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by joeb

You can keep saying CN all you want, just please stop saying it here. Imsa isn't doing it, no matter how much sense it makes to you. Move on.

Just making conversation.

[Deleted]

Sorry if posted before but really liked this what-if article from John... and wish it was reality (although not agree with all the hypothetical views)
http://johndagys.com/what-if-the-alm...-didnt-happen/

[carbsmith]

There's imagination and then there's outright fantasy. No BoP controversy in DP? I'm dying on the floor.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

There's imagination and then there's outright fantasy. No BoP controversy in DP? I'm dying on the floor.

Yeah that was laughable but in any case it would've just been in Grand-Am so who cares.

[FormulaFox]

Actually, he may have been right about there being no BoP controversy since after the 2009 Porsche DP debacle Grand-Am was barely bothering to try and balance anything.

[Deleted]

There was constant fiddling when DPG3 came to force in 2012.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Ligier. Don't be surprised if most of the people who go for it use the Ligier - they seem to have the market cornered right now.

And given what I learned about LMP3 in VdeV today, I hope IMSA plans to give the P3s a power boost, or there could be embarrassing times ahead. In two of four race weekends this year, the P3 cars were two seconds slower than the CN cars. In the two where P3 was faster, one was by less than two seconds, the other just short of five seconds. It's pretty clear that the track layout and surface conditions has a pretty big influence on this matter.

As I've noted before, CN cars generally post similar lap times to the Elan DP02, so unless US circuits are VERY suitable to the P3s, the "lower" class could be fighting for the overall win rather frequently without a boost to the P3s. If that happens, we end up coming right back around to the question of what's the point of P3 in Lites? Of course this serves to reinforce the notion that P3 shouldn't be in WSC unless they REALLY boost the speed, as well.

If the P3 car is going to be running in the top class ahead of the current spec of lites, then they shouldnt need a boost in power...I'm certain that IMSA has researched this.

[JLGarcia]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

JDC-Miller have jumped first and put down an order for at least one P3 chassis.

Expect many more to follow suit...

PR1 already has one (from United Autosports- dunno if it's a brand new build or one UA has run this year) as well.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by JLGarcia

PR1 already has one (from United Autosports- dunno if it's a brand new build or one UA has run this year) as well.

Yeah, I just remembered that... I think many others forgot as well....

There are, I think, 12 in the States running in some fashion...

[Rcz]

That would if is pie in the sky, at least with ALMS.

I do believe Grand-Am's car count would grow eventually on the DP side But no new manufacturers except for the Wolf chassis. GT would continue to be stale until they realized the PWC boon. And maybe the DP would eventually get replaced buy the DTM cars.

ALMS would either go bankrupt or get sold perhaps to that Chris pook guy.




Well anyway, in today's new Scott Atherton admits his is trying to destroy the ST class:
http://sportscar365.com/imsa/ctscc/i...-ctsc-in-2018/

[Coach Ep]

Plus I'm excited to see the P3s in IMSA competition next year, demand for these cars seem to be solid and I think we could see around 10 cars already in the Lites series next year.

I also think it's not out of the equation to see IMSA coming up with a few P3 enduro races (similar to the Conti Challenge ones) in 2018 if P3 will be a huge success next season (I consider more than 10 cars on the grid in '17 a big success).

[FormulaFox]

http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/13293...-new-prototype

I think we can now be fairly certain we'll have two DPi manufacturers. Even though they haven't officially confirmed it, it's nice to see someone from Mazda making a statement that is firmly leaning one way or another.

[Bcarr6]

Can't believe there's still no official announcement from GM, or Mazda.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FormulaFox]

Official announcements will probably come when they have a semi-finalized wind tunnel model or rendering - or when they have an actual car to display.

My money's on the former though given we haven't even seen the new designs for the base P2(aside from that side view of the Riley-Multimatic).

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

Can't believe there's still no official announcement from GM, or Mazda.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gm usually does not confirm programs until at least October. That is when they usually announce the re-upping on the Corvette Racing program, its drivers, Cadillac Racing, etc.... It is a corporate thing.









L.P.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

Can't believe there's still no official announcement from GM, or Mazda.

I too think this is odd. Part of me thinks that if they both would have announced right away, and drawn up some early design sketch, then another manufacturer or 2 would have come in for 2017. Now everybody is sort of interested but wants to see how it plays out in 2017 before committing.


ps. I moved some of the non-topical P3 discussion to the Lites thread.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by joeb

I too think this is odd. Part of me thinks that if they both would have announced right away, and drawn up some early design sketch, then another manufacturer or 2 would have come in for 2017. Now everybody is sort of interested but wants to see how it plays out in 2017 before committing.

There's also the delays in finalizing the rules. While the basic outline has been known for a while, there's still a lot to be finalized that can have a huge effect on the project. Of the manufacturers that are genuinely interested, most don't want to invest the money until the final rules are out. They might not like the results.

If we're going to get a fair amount of manufacturers, it likely won't be until 2018.

ps. I moved some of the non-topical P3 discussion to the Lites thread.

I apologize for misplacement, it didn't even cross my mind for some reason until that last post.