GM gone by the end of the month?

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by Rob Bailey

Auto Bail out approved in the States.Congress has approved short term loans.

Speaker Nancy Pelosi has been talking close scrutiny on spending ... lets hope those who put the on going case for motor sport spending are convincing with Nascar in 09 the obvious starting point.

[Forda]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

I think Tom Walkinshaw should buy Holden.

He seems to have an impenetrable grip on something in the management chain of that business. Restart TWR by building Commodores for the world market.

Actually, the inverse could apply should any change occur in Holden’s capital structure.

A potential new owner of the Holden operations may not necessarily recognise the virtues of dilating ownership in the special vehicles & race team businesses; particularly if those business add material profit to the overall bottom line.

[fomoco]

I wouldn't worry too much at hte moment. In Austt we have a very good prudential regulation sytems in place. Oh yes there will some blood, but when it's over and profits are up again they will rehire. Aust has learnt welll from the last time USA went belly up. All the doomsdayers, i.e journo's are paid to paint a story. Bleak otcomes, etc. If that was the case, why haven't our factories started shutting down?.

I 've heard about the putting thier money is Safe deposit boxes for a while. Hold your money until we see how the market is, etc etc etc.

It's not all doom and gloom, as my friend said a couple of weeks ago, it's just economic cleasing, and yes a few will go by the way in Aust. Nothing to panic about, unless you listen to journo's. Even the head of the bank here said the Govt was doing the right thing, it just the opposition talking C###.


So Any takers in putting in a bid for Broady or Fishermmans Bend?

[Rob Bailey]

Originally Posted by fomoco

I wouldn't worry too much at hte moment. In Austt we have a very good prudential regulation sytems in place. Oh yes there will some blood, but when it's over and profits are up again they will rehire. Aust has learnt welll from the last time USA went belly up. All the doomsdayers, i.e journo's are paid to paint a story. Bleak otcomes, etc. If that was the case, why haven't our factories started shutting down?.

I 've heard about the putting thier money is Safe deposit boxes for a while. Hold your money until we see how the market is, etc etc etc.

It's not all doom and gloom, as my friend said a couple of weeks ago, it's just economic cleasing, and yes a few will go by the way in Aust. Nothing to panic about, unless you listen to journo's. Even the head of the bank here said the Govt was doing the right thing, it just the opposition talking C###.


So Any takers in putting in a bid for Broady or Fishermmans Bend?

Employment is the key.

[fomoco]

Originally Posted by Rob Bailey

Employment is the key.

Thats true, and any company or govt who have done ther ehomework will have this sussed out. Others that built on false beliefs, i.e banks hedge funds, bonds, futures trading will always suffer. Sad but true.

When I was retrenched from a big australian, I mowed lawns and worked as a labourer until I could get back into the swing of things. So when we hear the end is nigh, I have a laugh, poor pen pushers, get out and do something , dont cry poor.

Unfourtunatley, to a lot of Australians, this is below them. stiff. as my signature says, look into a mirror , you will find the answers. Do what you need to do to survive, stop bleating for handouts. and don't come back with some people can't. Sorry wrong country for that s&&&&

[Rob Bailey]

Originally Posted by fomoco

Thats true, and any company or govt who have done ther ehomework will have this sussed out. Others that built on false beliefs, i.e banks hedge funds, bonds, futures trading will always suffer. Sad but true.

When I was retrenched from a big australian, I mowed lawns and worked as a labourer until I could get back into the swing of things. So when we hear the end is nigh, I have a laugh, poor pen pushers, get out and do something , dont cry poor.

Unfourtunatley, to a lot of Australians, this is below them. stiff. as my signature says, look into a mirror , you will find the answers. Do what you need to do to survive, stop bleating for handouts. and don't come back with some people can't. Sorry wrong country for that s&&&&

me too.Had a business partner steal $2 big ones out of a trust account.Did it hard for a year working in a mates engineering business (ex F5000 racer) then got back into it in 2000 and business has been great till now.
illness and todays financial market have made it hard ,but you keep going.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by fomoco

It's not all doom and gloom, as my friend said a couple of weeks ago, it's just economic cleasing, and yes a few will go by the way in Aust. Nothing to panic about

Nothing to panic about unless you're one of the families about to lose everything you've worked for.

[fomoco]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Nothing to panic about unless you're one of the families about to lose everything you've worked for.

If you worked for it and set it up properly, and made hay while the sun shone, and had some in reserve, you could ride out he storm. Un fourtunatley some people can't run a business, and shouldn't have been there for a start.

I have seen waste of money by many a bisuness and in the hard times they all complain.

Have a look at some of the racing teams set ups. Some do it well others , whiles others go ................ . do you really need a caffe?

[sizzle]

And the little man who hasn't got a business you sanctimonious prick! I am sure he wants a latte!

Originally Posted by fomoco

If you worked for it and set it up properly, and made hay while the sun shone, and had some in reserve, you could ride out he storm. Un fourtunatley some people can't run a business, and shouldn't have been there for a start.

I have seen waste of money by many a bisuness and in the hard times they all complain.

Have a look at some of the racing teams set ups. Some do it well others , whiles others go ................ . do you really need a caffe?

[bluesport]

US senate has rejected bailout package.

[billy bigtime]

Originally Posted by bluesport

US senate has rejected bailout package.

Bye bye GM and Holden.

[GTRMagic]

Stuffed...

[xrystl]

Originally Posted by bluesport

US senate has rejected bailout package.

I have been following the fortunes of the US auto industry for some time , the writing has been on the wall for GM for a few years and only needed a hiccup like the global recession to really bring their problems out into the open - the senate feels that it's better for GM to go bankrupt and then get rid of all the dead wood (people and products) and start afresh , force GM to rid itself of its "dead ducks" like Saab - Hummer - Opel - Vauxhall and stop building the 1-4 tonne SUVs that no one is buying and are stockpiled in every nook and cranny away from prying eyes , all the products that aren't making money "get rid of them" as they probably will never make any money and are just a drain on resources - the 15 billion would only see GM and Chrysler remaining solvent till February = how much would change in that period of time? = Zilch , it takes GM two years to stop building a particular model because of the infrastructure .
Time for a major clean out .

[Pro Racer]

Chinamen to buy Holden, i think that was going around a little while ago IIRC.

GM Holden > Dim Sim Holden.

[Rombles1]

Originally Posted by xrystl

I have been following the fortunes of the US auto industry for some time , the writing has been on the wall for GM for a few years and only needed a hiccup like the global recession to really bring their problems out into the open - the senate feels that it's better for GM to go bankrupt and then get rid of all the dead wood (people and products) and start afresh , force GM to rid itself of its "dead ducks" like Saab - Hummer - Opel - Vauxhall and stop building the 1-4 tonne SUVs that no one is buying and are stockpiled in every nook and cranny away from prying eyes , all the products that aren't making money "get rid of them" as they probably will never make any money and are just a drain on resources - the 15 billion would only see GM and Chrysler remaining solvent till February = how much would change in that period of time? = Zilch , it takes GM two years to stop building a particular model because of the infrastructure .
Time for a major clean out .

Are Saab/Hummer/Opel/Vauxhall really the problem with GM, or is it Chevy/Buick/Pontiac/Cadillac that is the problem?

[xrystl]

Originally Posted by Rombles1

Are Saab/Hummer/Opel/Vauxhall really the problem with GM, or is it Chevy/Buick/Pontiac/Cadillac that is the problem?

I have a close acquaintance who works for GM NA , he mentioned a lot of the generic brands and models in the US as non performing , he specifically mentioned the European models as under performing and Hummer as a major loss of $$ , he works for Terex and they have been scaling back for some time , yet they will still loose 20% of their workforce in the new year , he is going after having been with the company since he left College - he is now 53 and it will take years for his entitlements to catch up with him as GM don't have the $$$ at the moment to pay it all out .

[billy bigtime]

I would like to see Holden floated on the ASX, rather than to close or be taken over by a Chinese company. I think Toyota would also be very interested in Holden.

[Pro Racer]

i don't care who owns it all i want is the Holden brand to still be and make their own cars not be merged into another car maker like Toyota.

[Gaz170]

Originally Posted by billy bigtime

I would like to see Holden floated on the ASX, rather than to close or be taken over by a Chinese company. I think Toyota would also be very interested in Holden.

I doubt Holden could survive on its own. It needs a global parent.

Anyone want to adopt a car maker or two?

[Robert Ryan]

Who would have thought as we were growing up(Baby Boomer), that Holden would be designing RWD drive cars for GMNA or that all of the "Big 3" would become bankrupt? A very strange world.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by billy bigtime

I would like to see Holden floated on the ASX, rather than to close or be taken over by a Chinese company. I think Toyota would also be very interested in Holden.

We may see toyota in V8 supercars yet!......the toyota commodore V8 supercar owned by Tom Ralkinshaw.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by bluesport

We may see toyota in V8 supercars yet!......the toyota commodore V8 supercar owned by Tom Ralkinshaw.

"Oh what a feeling"

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by Rombles1

Are Saab/Hummer/Opel/Vauxhall really the problem with GM, or is it Chevy/Buick/Pontiac/Cadillac that is the problem?

North America is the problem - I heard a US commentator suggest the establishment of Hummer was an example of how out of touch GM has been.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by cavvy

North America is the problem - I heard a US commentator suggest the establishment of Hummer was an example of how out of touch GM has been.

NA is the problem specifically with the UAW(union). The bailout, if it happens, is a bailout for the State of Michigan and the UAW. It is only going to prolong the inevitable. There is no way for GM to be able to make competitive cars with the kind of entitlements union workers get. As an example, I believe GM spent $17 million last year on Viagra alone for it's union workers.

In addition GM has a lot of inefficiencies in how it does business in the USA. I believe GM has around 6400 dealers in the USA, while Toyota which sells about the same number of cars has about 1400 nationwide. Plus a lot of the brands duplicate themselves with products and some like Hummer they overexpanded.

The USA has a successful, modern car industry, just that it is down south where the unions don't have influence due to state laws and taxes and costs are lower. Visit a plant like BMW in South Carolina or Mercedes or Hyundai in Alabama and then go visit a GM or Ford plant in Ohio or Michigan and you can see a visible difference.

GM is everywhere in the world and in a lot of cases more successful right now than GM USA. I suspect if GM USA goes bankrupt, for Holden it will be business as usual for now.

In the USA are bankruptcy laws vary. If it's a Chapter 7 bankruptcy, then everything gets liquidated and the business is closed. Unlikely with GM. If it's a Chapter 11 bankruptcy, which is likely, the business has a chance to reorganize.

[cavvy]

Mountainstar, I understand the UAW problem doesnt relate to the pay rate ($/hr) its the benefits package at GM.
The average age for a GM UAW member is 53, compared to 30 in the Toyota plants.

The problem of Chapter 11 is market research claiming no one would buy a car from a bankrupt car maker.

Whats easily saleable from the GM portfolio - didnt Penske take Allison & Detroit Diesel some years back, Terex has been mentioned.

GMH? If GM go, the asset will be sold as a going concern or broken up & sold at asset realisation prices (as Rover & MG a couple of years back).