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27 Mar 2011, 15:50 (Ref:2854246) | #26 | |
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Yes, I'd be firmly in favour of a return to testing, as long as everyone got the same opportunites - ie. no special sessions for backmarkers like HRT nor a return to the days of Ferrari hammering around Fiorano 24/7/365 with Bridgestone on hand.
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27 Mar 2011, 15:58 (Ref:2854251) | #27 | |
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I like the concept of offering new teams a few mid-season test sessions for the first two years, but how do you define 'new' teams? The FIAs definition would probably include any team that is completely renamed.
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27 Mar 2011, 16:19 (Ref:2854264) | #28 | ||
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I think it's based on company registrations for most things, that's how the car numbers generally carry over between identities, that's how it would have worked out with Brawn apart from an agreement to swap numbers due to a whole load of swag being made, Renault kept their numbers at the change of owners, and Mercedes took over from Brawn.
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27 Mar 2011, 17:36 (Ref:2854327) | #29 | |||
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HRT can't afford petrol let alone testing. How much running did they do during the weekend? How much did they do during the winter. They've had a chance to test and not, so offering more opportunity to test isn't going to help. This thread suggests a nice idea, but it wouldn't help the helpless HRT. |
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27 Mar 2011, 17:38 (Ref:2854328) | #30 | ||
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27 Mar 2011, 17:44 (Ref:2854334) | #31 | ||
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They need saving from themselves......They should politely be asked to go away and work on their cars which will be evaluated at a test session before they are allowed to run again at a GP. Alternatively perhaps 3 strikes and you are out, which would prolong their and our agony. |
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27 Mar 2011, 19:16 (Ref:2854394) | #32 | |||
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Marbot : "Ironically, the main difference between a Red Bull and a Virgin is that Red Bull can make parts of its car smaller and floppier." |
27 Mar 2011, 19:23 (Ref:2854399) | #33 | ||
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27 Mar 2011, 19:25 (Ref:2854403) | #34 | ||
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I'd say something like that is logical, I'd go for two three-day and two four-day tests, the last two to be two-car, with a minimum amount of mileage for each race driver (say 200 continuous km, 300km in total) and for reserve and young drivers needed, the first as a safety/ability to perform thing the second in case of emergencies and for driver development.
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28 Mar 2011, 09:55 (Ref:2854745) | #35 | |||
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Costs are kept good, driver turnover is normalised as they keep young drivers in practice and the teams can test a bit. |
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28 Mar 2011, 11:14 (Ref:2854786) | #36 | ||
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I think this'd be a dangerous move.
I can't help but feel you'd see Liuzzi and Karthikeyan go out there and not qualify on purpose (alá Arrows) in order to gain some testing time. Selby |
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28 Mar 2011, 11:30 (Ref:2854792) | #37 | |
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I'd have to disgree with that. HRT are desperate for sponsorship - it's imperative that they're in action on Sundays. I doubt they'd sacrifice it for a spot of extra testing. Plus, racing is testing time in itself.
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28 Mar 2011, 11:51 (Ref:2854809) | #38 | ||
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That's a fair point mate.
Selby |
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28 Mar 2011, 12:11 (Ref:2854822) | #39 | |||
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28 Mar 2011, 12:30 (Ref:2854831) | #40 | ||
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Lots of mean spirited comments above! What a lot of people are saying this that, if you don't have the money, bugger off. We don't want you. (Are you lot bankers?) And that really what is comes down to. Money. And one way to get money is to get on the track and attract sponsors (or find a rich benefactor ala Virgin, but that's less likely, and benefactors don't have bottomless pockets).
HRT (and to a lesser extent Virgin and Lotus) most certainly don't have the cash that the other teams do, or the experience to make a immediately competitive F1 car. Cash can make up for lack of experience of course, but if you don't have large amounts of either...??? And the way people are commenting above, means that teams entering for the first time are likely to last one or two years at most before they fold - and good riddance? Harsh. The incumbant teams bring cars from the previous year, cash, and experience - they already hold all the cards. The newcomers need some help or the turnover will continue, and we never get any new teams in f1. It the same reason that teams that finally make it to the top footy leagues usually leave a little a year or two later - the barrier to entry is just too high. I'd go for a sliding scale for extra testing. Something like you get more testing hours according to how much slower than the front markers you are. For example, Additional hrs testing = ((percentage slower over top time) - 100) * 2. So a team at 107% get 7*2 hrs extra testing. That way all teams get some extra testing on the circuit of their choice (to keep costs down), it's just the slower ones get a bit more. Should be just enough to get the slower teams in to the 107 bracket, and results in better racing all round. F1 *is* difficult, but lack of testing makes it much more difficult for newcomers that the incumbants, which makes for very one sided racing. |
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28 Mar 2011, 14:43 (Ref:2854897) | #41 | |||
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helping out HRT (or anyone who falls ot 107%) with an extra test session does nothing to change the balance between them and the top teams but does everything to change it amongst the the 3 'new' teams. |
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28 Mar 2011, 15:30 (Ref:2854927) | #42 | ||
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How is 107 worked out?
My calcs show that if you take Vettels pole time (1.23.529), 107% of that is 1.29.376, which would have excluded both Virgins, and the Lotus' would have been in by only 100ths.
So, presumably, the 107 is worked out from the fastest time in Q1, not Q3. Is that right? And would the same people who want Hispania out also want both these teams out as well, because they are over or very close to the 107%, depending on how you work it out? |
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28 Mar 2011, 15:35 (Ref:2854929) | #43 | |||
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28 Mar 2011, 16:07 (Ref:2854951) | #44 | |||
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Anyway that wasn't my point - the point was there is very little difference between Hispania and Virgin/Lotus given that the last two almost didnt make the cut either, but neither of those teams get the slagging off that Hispania get in the comments above. Virgina and Lotus was 5 or more seconds off the pace and they have had more track time than Hispania who were 7 seconds off the pace. They are much closer to Hispania than they are the front runners. |
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Locost #54 Boldly Leaping where no car has gone before. And then being T-boned. Damn. Survivor of the 2008 2CV 24h!! 2 engines, one accident, 76mph and rain. |
28 Mar 2011, 17:14 (Ref:2854979) | #45 | |||
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completely unworkable, would maclaren get 14mins extra testing because they are slightly off the pace? or are they deamed to be close enough to the pace to be denied your 'testing tax relief' |
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28 Mar 2011, 17:27 (Ref:2854993) | #46 | ||
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I see what everyone means by the whole 'socialism' thing, but this issue is not just about HRT, or Lotus or Virgin Racing or whoever else you may care to name, its about F1 as a whole. If they want extra teams like this, they've got to accept that they're gonna need a bit of help to get up a bit of speed. To suggest that it's "all the teams fault for not coming prepared" is a completely fair and valid point to make, but if new teams are to be encouraged into F1, you can't just expect them to turn up with a decent race-car in only their second year of racing. Saying they should be gone off the grid, and reintroducing rules like the 107% rule to further alienate them is contentious, confusing, arbitrary, unnecessary and unhelpful, and is the kind of knee jerk reaction that puts people (including me) more and more off F1. F1 may well be about trying to encourage excellence, and that is definitely something that should be applauded. But if F1 wants the new teams to compete, they've got to help them at some point. Otherwise the team will fold and disappear, the grid will shrink and we will end up with even less action on track than at present. At least with the new teams being there it creates some sort of challenge in terms of traffic and moving chicanes for the leading cars! Last edited by dyewat808; 28 Mar 2011 at 17:37. |
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28 Mar 2011, 18:16 (Ref:2855013) | #47 | |
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It'd be a bit harsh to base it on 107% of the pole time. Teams who need to worry about the 107% rule aren't going to make it out of Q3, which is a slower session for everyone than Q1. Plus, Q3 times aren't really representative of race pace, so I don't think it creates a safety issue.
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28 Mar 2011, 18:29 (Ref:2855023) | #48 | ||
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It is also theoretically possible that weather conditions can change between Q1 and Q3 meaning that the cars get faster throughout the session, however, the backmarkers would not be able to respond to this as a result of being knocked out of qualifying.
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28 Mar 2011, 18:31 (Ref:2855025) | #49 | ||
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Excellent point. |
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28 Mar 2011, 18:36 (Ref:2855028) | #50 | ||
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I really really want to see the new teams do well, but in their second year, HRT only have themselves to balme for not getting the cars ready to run properly in practice, and for not have ANY preseason testing with their new car at all.
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