Indycar needs more European talents

[BSchneiderFan]

IndyCar needs a domestic fan base.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by ace007

Give Sam Bird the Ganassi drive!! He is the next Montoya story!

No way. This is the No. 10 we're talking about, a top drive. You need stamina and a good nose for the ovals. Bird is practiced in sprint races and doesn't know the ovals so he would be a very speculative and silly choice for that drive. If they pick up anyone from GP2, it would be very reckless. Ganassi won't do it anyway. Montoya paid off for him but Minassian and Junquiera did not.

I don't care if they are European or American for any specific drive although overall they do no need a strong core of Americans to be at the core of this series. That is an essential prerequisite if Indycar want to inveigle their way back into the American public consciousness.

[chunterer]

Minassian was a bit of a flop, but I thought Bruno did ok, he had serious potential in single seaters until that huge shunt knocked the confidence out of him.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Minassian was a bit of a flop, but I thought Bruno did ok, he had serious potential in single seaters until that huge shunt knocked the confidence out of him.

Yes, I agree actually.

[ace007]

It is easier to adapt to ovals than the other way around. The best single-seater drivers still come from Europe (taking all South American talents in Asians too). Thus it always raise the US standard in my view. No offense to the US ladder but you cant compare it to the European crop.

Even Kimbal was in F3 in Europe before being backed by NN and was a mid-fielder at best...

So I say the top "European guys" have a really good chance to do well and if they are smart, to literally excel.

Because America is still the land to reward talent above politics and that's the power it has and should never give up. That's my angle.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

IndyCar needs a domestic fan base.

This can't be true as we learned last week there are 60 million Indycar fans.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by ace007

But broader speaking, wouldn't just more European pilots join make the series grow in terms of drivers' standards as well as fan base?

Indycar's core fanbase found it appalling when the reigning world driving champion came to race in Indycars, taking a spot away from a 'more deserving' 'murrican driver, so we had a holy war waged to take the sport back from all those foreigners and goofy road and street races.

I was one who walked away from the sport when that change occurred and from what I see of the TV ratings and attendance it looks like maybe CART really did have the right idea, but that battle is lost. The sport is back to what it was in the early '60's or maybe even earlier, except the carbon fiber race cars are too expensive to depend on one-off sponsorship from Joe's Plumbing at the next race, so it's kind of neither fish nor fowl now.

It won't amount to anything until the teams find their "attachments" and take the sport back, or somebody else starts something a lot more interesting.

[DS"]

I don't want to see IndyCar as a dumping ground for GP2/FR3.5 rejects. In CART's heyday, the series could attract former F1 drivers, hell even former World Champions (Emmo, Mario, Mansell). I still think that IndyCar wasted a good opportunity with Rubens Barrichello. Not necessarily with the American market, but with the South American market, as well as F1 fans around the globe. Barrichello could have set a trend among F1 drivers, who were out of a ride in F1, to look at IndyCar instead. Maybe Paul di Resta can start setting that trend.

But as for "talents": No. IndyCar should try to foster more homegrown talent. Either young Americans or at least enough guys from the Indy Lights, so that competing in the Indy Light series becomes worth more.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by miatanut

Indycar's core fanbase found it appalling when the reigning world driving champion came to race in Indycars,

That is bs.

What did annoy fans was it turning into buy a ride, not talent, that got a seat.

Oh yes, and George doing his imitation of Gollum while running his series.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

That is bs.

What did annoy fans was it turning into buy a ride, not talent, that got a seat.

Oh yes, and George doing his imitation of Gollum while running his series.

I'm pretty sure Mansell did not buy that ride. Nor did Emmo. There were always ride buyers. In 1960 there were ride buyers. They only became the norm in the post CART era.

[gert]

Originally Posted by ace007

It is easier to adapt to ovals than the other way around. The best single-seater drivers still come from Europe (taking all South American talents in Asians too). Thus it always raise the US standard in my view. No offense to the US ladder but you cant compare it to the European crop.

Sure, that 's why James Jakes, Giorgio Pantano, Martin Plowman, Alex Lloyd, Jay Howard, Adam Carroll, Francesco Dracone, Nelson Philippe, Robert Doornbos, Darren Manning, Franck Montagny and Franck Perera were so succesfull and absolutely dominated Indycar since 2008.

Bring on Sam Bird !!

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by miatanut

In 1960 there were ride buyers.

Really, just what sponsors did drives bring to the sport in the sixties.?
In the sixites teams had sponsors and put the best driver available in the car to drive it. Some just had a car and looked for driver that could qualify it.
No one paid an owner to get to drive the car.

Or are you saying some well known journey-man drivers were secretly millionaires buys buying rides in cars with little chance of a top three finish much less winning, BRILLIANT!

Now to actually buy a car and start a team, some did, because some drivers were engineers that worked on their own car but that is not even close to the type of ride buying that started with CART.

[ace007]

Originally Posted by gert

Sure, that 's why James Jakes, Giorgio Pantano, Martin Plowman, Alex Lloyd, Jay Howard, Adam Carroll, Francesco Dracone, Nelson Philippe, Robert Doornbos, Darren Manning, Franck Montagny and Franck Perera were so succesfull and absolutely dominated Indycar since 2008.

Bring on Sam Bird !!

I dont see how you can put Dracone or Philippe in this list unless you are trying to be insulting to some great talents.

Pantano, Montagny or Perera never had the chance to express their talent to the full. For your info, Perera beat the Sebring lap record unofficially in a Conquest car by going clocking 49.89 before the 2008 season. It was Bourdais' before that @ 49.90 in his Newman-haas machine...

Did you know that FORSYTHE SIGNED HIM BEFORE WITHDRAWING BEFORE THE "MERGER" MAYHEM... Tough luck for some but clear acknowledgement by the profession across the Atlantic!!

But if you are going on a "funny line" here, allow me to remind you that Zanardi, Mansell, Montoya (European racing school) and even Franchitti enjoy the European status we are talking about.

JK Vernay in Indylights was pretty impressive in one year in the USA while Bourdais, Pagenaud, Wilson and the late Wheldon did prety well for themselves just to name a few recent names...

Yes, I insist that Indycar could do with top European talents (which Doornbos, Manning or Jakes never belonged to) in order to boost its standards even higher than it is.

[chunterer]

Manning was bloody good in my book, perhaps not completely top drawer, but plenty good enough. Bird is a similar level to be fair.

[JacobP]

Originally Posted by DS"

I don't want to see IndyCar as a dumping ground for GP2/FR3.5 rejects. In CART's heyday, the series could attract former F1 drivers, hell even former World Champions (Emmo, Mario, Mansell). I still think that IndyCar wasted a good opportunity with Rubens Barrichello. Not necessarily with the American market, but with the South American market, as well as F1 fans around the globe. Barrichello could have set a trend among F1 drivers, who were out of a ride in F1, to look at IndyCar instead. Maybe Paul di Resta can start setting that trend.

I think having Barrichello in IndyCar could have raised the profile of IndyCar, a little bit, but not for long. If we kept seeing him perform like in 2012 year after year, it would get boring fast. The teams, probably correctly, have recognized that he is past his prime and wouldn't offer him a seat without additional sponsors.

[ace007]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Manning was bloody good in my book, perhaps not completely top drawer, but plenty good enough. Bird is a similar level to be fair.

Manning was not bad indeed but not in the vein of Montoya and co... Now, I simply hope I have the chance to prove you wrong with Sam Bird if he gets the chance to race in Indycar. I know for a fact that he is on the Ganassi "rookie list" but the latest statement from Hull seems to go the other way so...

But Sam would do wonders even in a Dale Coyne machine, and challenge Wilson from day 1, at least on the twisties as they call them! Ovals will always remain a challenge with Coyne but Sam would get the hang of them pretty soon in my book and could challenge the top if given the equipment.

[gert]

Originally Posted by ace007

I dont see how you can put Dracone or Philippe in this list unless you are trying to be insulting to some great talents.

I can, I just did :P

Originally Posted by ace007

...

I'm just trying to point out that being European is no guarantee for success.
Even being European AND having the necessary talent is no guarantee.

[gert]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Manning was bloody good in my book, perhaps not completely top drawer, but plenty good enough. Bird is a similar level to be fair.

But isn't that true for most of them? Plenty good enough? Give one of those a top car and they would do a plenty good enough job?
Manning (back then)/Bird(maybe in the future)/Servia/Tagliani/Briscoe/ ...

[gert]

Originally Posted by ace007

But Sam would do wonders even in a Dale Coyne machine, and challenge Wilson from day 1, at least on the twisties as they call them! Ovals will always remain a challenge with Coyne but Sam would get the hang of them pretty soon in my book and could challenge the top if given the equipment.

Sure.
There's little evidence to suggest he would challenge Wilson -- let alone from day 1.

Maybe you should also take into account that Coyne rarely manages to field 2 competitive cars at once.


It is possible he 'd do a good job, but not certain. Instead of a Montoya, he could as well do a Minassian.

[ace007]

Originally Posted by gert

Sure.
There's little evidence to suggest he would challenge Wilson -- let alone from day 1.

Maybe you should also take into account that Coyne rarely manages to field 2 competitive cars at once.


It is possible he 'd do a good job, but not certain. Instead of a Montoya, he could as well do a Minassian.

There is no evidence, you are right. But there are people following both series in Europe and in the USA like me who believe he really would shine, should he be given the chance.

[Peat]

Yeah, we know.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

I think what ace007 is trying to say is that if you put Nico Hulkenberg and Fernando Alonso into Indycar, whilst they will take time to adapt to ovals, they will win road course races by 40 seconds, and if it is raining then put JB into Indycar and let him lap the field...

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Whilst Indycar drivers are by no means slouches, Will Power finished 7th in FR3.5 when Kubica won it. Kubica looked brilliant in F1 but was sometimes shaded by Nick Heidfeld and Vitaly Petrov.

Power is in Indycar's elite driver group.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

Whilst Indycar drivers are by no means slouches, Will Power finished 7th in FR3.5 when Kubica won it. Kubica looked brilliant in F1 but was sometimes shaded by Nick Heidfeld and Vitaly Petrov.

Power is in Indycar's elite driver group.

Yeah but Power was also a front runner in that 3.5 season you mention, but wasn't in the right car from what I could tell.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

I think what ace007 is trying to say is that if you put Nico Hulkenberg and Fernando Alonso into Indycar, whilst they will take time to adapt to ovals, they will win road course races by 40 seconds, and if it is raining then put JB into Indycar and let him lap the field...

I'm not sure ace should dare to suggest anything of the sort.

I'd be reasonably confident to suggest that Nico and Fonz wouldn't decimate to such a degree by any means. The likes of Dixon and Helio are more than capable of holding their own and we know that a certain big name single-seater returnee was more than a match for Fernando in battle a few years back.