[WEC] Alpine Sportscar Discussion

[S griffin]

Maybe they could try their F1 airbox

[chernaudi]

Could it be like last year where at times due to BOP/EOT adjustments LMP1 wasn't much faster than LMP2 at most tracks?


I can see that with LMH vs LMP2 due to hybrid power cuts and increased weight.

[Mike E]

Some numbers

Hypercar, 1030kg (1040kg for 4wd hybrids), 670bhp, 650bhp/tonne
LMP2, 930kg, 560bhp, 600bhp/tonne

The extra 100kg will be a disadvantage during acceleration from low speed, which will be traction-limited to some extent.

Hybrid power cuts shouldn't be an issue because the power unit can juggle ICE and hybrid to maintain max power. Not an issue for Alpine and Glickenhaus anyway, of course.

I hope they reduce the Hypercar minimum weight. Please just get it below 1000kg.

[SnoodyMcFlude]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Could it be like last year where at times due to BOP/EOT adjustments LMP1 wasn't much faster than LMP2 at most tracks

If Hypercars are aiming for a 3:30 at Le Mans then it stands to reason that we're going to see cars being much closer together.

I think using the grandfathered car is fairly smart, we know it can do the lap times and aiming for something slower in theory should help with reliability. My very limited understanding of Hypercars is that the aero isn't quite as fancy Dan either, so potentially could that play into the hands of an LMP1?

[Mal]

Originally Posted by SnoodyMcFlude

If Hypercars are aiming for a 3:30 at Le Mans then it stands to reason that we're going to see cars being much closer together.

I think using the grandfathered car is fairly smart, we know it can do the lap times and aiming for something slower in theory should help with reliability. My very limited understanding of Hypercars is that the aero isn't quite as fancy Dan either, so potentially could that play into the hands of an LMP1?

..... Yes and everyone knows that the ACO will want the new flagship hypercar to win..... except that the grandfathered car is... French ..hmmm

[GT6]

To be honest over the last few years i have been less and less bothered by the poster and not sure any recent ones will, in a few years time, be getting bids on ebay that even cover the cost of postage.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by GT6

To be honest over the last few years i have been less and less bothered by the poster and not sure any recent ones will, in a few years time, be getting bids on ebay that even cover the cost of postage.

Agreed, when I look back at some of the ones I still have from my early years at Le Mans, they were so much better, that goes for the tickets I collect too.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by joeb

They have been out testing with an LMP2 car and don't quite seem to like the current gap between the classes.

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...s-fine-tuning/

A bunch of people here have been saying this would be a problem. You don't need to be an expert to know this will be a problem. The whole reason LMP1 and LMP2 were sped up was to give a bigger straight line speed difference to stop dive bombing between them and the GTEs.

Now we've removed that difference, and teams are worried about the situation we had before. Who could've predicted that? Apart from, everyone?

[Sodemo]

Would it not just be easier to give the Hypercar class say 50bhp more?

[Mike E]

100kg less would be even easier

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Mike E

100kg less would be even easier

I guess that assumes though that all teams could run their car at a new much lower min weight? Would that be difficult for any teams do you think or are these cars built massively underweight?

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I guess that assumes though that all teams could run their car at a new much lower min weight? Would that be difficult for any teams do you think or are these cars built massively underweight?

I don't know. I just have a bee in my bonnet about purpose built racing cars weighing over a tonne.

However, the Alpine A480 is a Rebellion R13, which used the tub from the Oreca 07, and ran at the 833kg minimum weight in LMP1 and may well have been ballasted up to that:
'Weight distribution is different, and from the LMP2 we had to save a lot of weight, so if you keep everything the same then you don’t hit the target. We carry quite a lot of ballast in LMP2, but we still had a lot of weight to save for LMP1. The target was not only a matter of hitting the minimum weight, but hitting the weight with ballast.’

Similar story for SMP Racing's BR1 LMP1, based on Dallara's LMP2 tub:
'‘We started from the LMP2 monocoque that was already good, but the name of the game in LMP1 is weight saving, more than anything else,’ says Luca Pignacca, chief designer at Dallara. ‘The car must weigh 100kg less than the LMP2 and that is a lot. Fortunately, we had a good base from which to start, because the LMP2 car carries a lot of ballast with the Gibson engine'.

I' m pretty sure Jim described the Glickenhaus as 'a 900kg car' or something like that.

And I can't believe Toyota have forgotten everything they learned in LMP1.

The sticking point may be LMDh. These will be based on the next generation of LMP2 chassis. Will they still run at 930kg? Even taking out the ballast, adding an electric motor and a battery pack will push them towards the 1030kg Hypercar minimum.

Here endeth my off topic thoughts for the day.

[canaglia]

From 2017 there were a lot of reliable rumors about an unballested oreca07 being in the range of >700kg -<800kg. I think gibson lmp1 engine is heavier than the lmp2 version, so it should let R13 have a heavier dry weight making the ballast placement a critical aspect to get a likely 44/56 at a so lightweighted bop target of 833kg, while oreca07 having to reach 930kg has an easier approach about ballast since it must to carry much more.
Don't know about dallara tub, but at example I remember that max angelelli in a 2017 interview said that cadilacc dpi was about 50kg overweighted because of the huge 6.2L, scott sharp said something similiar also about the nissan powered onroak dpi, allowing me to guess that in unballasted conditions oreca07 is much lighter than competitors. Not a big surprise actually

[TF110]

I hope lmp2 is too close at Spa. That way the ACO wises up and changes the minimum weight for LM. At least Im dreaming thats the case.

[GingerPixel]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Spa seems like a good candidate for a circuit that might let them get pretty close. Long straights and twisty bits that won't suit the heavier vehicle.

[S griffin]

We’ll have to wait and see, the car still is not yet proven. Still a lot of unanswered questions.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by S griffin

We’ll have to wait and see, the car still is not yet proven. Still a lot of unanswered questions.

Well, it isn't exactly a new car, is it?

[S griffin]

No, but there are quite a few new cars out there, so we’ll see if it can remain competitive

[Mike E]

https://youtu.be/tJldVXkzpWs

https://youtu.be/K8uYHnCKgpY

[S griffin]

Hopefully Alpine won’t be left behind against what will be tough opposition

[Adam43]

Perhaps the ACO should consider some way to try and equalize the different kinds of cars?

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Perhaps the ACO should consider some way to try and equalize the different kinds of cars?

What a novel idea!

[Adam43]

Has any seen any details of the Alpine fuel tank size and issue on the internet.

It was discussed on the WEC coverage by McNish et al., but I’ve not seen any decent information in any race reports or coverage yet.

Why size do they have? Could we estimate if they could get the s a eating length, or at least same number of stints, as Toyota.

Have they talked about how hard it is in relation to the location and other components?

And more importantly, do they have plans to increase the capacity? Can they even?

[canaglia]

like R13, also arx-05 is an oreca 07 based car and it had different fuel tank size according to IMSA bop, at example at daytona and sebring this year it had a 79L fuel tank, while in previous seasons it had some liter less.
At the moment can't remember if the bop ever let them having a >79L fuel tank,
can only guess arx-05 has not less than a 80L fuel tank that can be reduced using atl volume displacement balls.
According to this, R13 could be equipped with a 80L fuel tank, just in theory at least.

[philipp]

are there some news about ALPINE joining LMH or LMDh?

I thought that the reason for ACO allowing LMDh in the WEC already in 2022 was to encourage Alpine/Renault to join the class...