Renault V6 on the edge of folding (merged)

[xman_wolve]

Lets put some reference for this straightline speed thing. In Macau, super-production touring car can do some where around 230 kph at the end of the straight while F3 do about the same. Look at the lap times of this year. Superproduction pole time was 2:40.786 and F3 was 2:14.995. Back in the mid-90s, those more powerful touring cars did way over 260 kph while the best lap time was 2:29.253 set by Soper in a BMW 320i during 1997. So which matter? Straight or coners?

[Shunt the Hunt]

Originally posted by dealer
Is there a Super Renault site somewhere. Would someone be able to post a link. Thanks

http://www.renault-sport.com/accueil.html

[Shunt the Hunt]

At Monza, Gommendy made 1'51'02 with the Renault V6, on December 13th 2002.

Last season, Belgian Philip Cloostermans made the pole-position at Monza in the Italian championship round with his Dallara-Opel F3 in... 1'48'967 (June 2002)

What did say Saleen ? Super Renault is 5 seconds quicker than Formula 3 ?

Do you understand now why nobody wants to compete in such a car ?

[Russfeld]

bring back the Eurocup!


did you guys see the entyr list for spa last year? 53 cars!

[Morcilman]

the big hing here is two things, first that there is somthing wrong with the car that renault knows (this is a rummor) and that is the reasson for it to be slower that it should...
and two, choose one:
a)I am formula 3000 champion
b)I am Spuer renault Champion

does it feel he same?

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally posted by Russfeld
bring back the Eurocup!


did you guys see the entyr list for spa last year? 53 cars!

Yeah there was 53 cars but that dosent matter as u dont see half of the field, and once the leader gets out ahead hes rarley caught in those kind of cars, and not only that they are dog slow.

Remember u want quality not quantity, Id rather have 22 qualtiy Renault v6 cars than 53 Renault Eurocup cars.

[Russfeld]

Now you're just talking ********. Did you happen to look at the Spa entry list? That was a quality grid. And how can you not see half the field when there's 53 cars? Thats over twice as many as your precious Super series

[bella]

yeah. that field was serious quality, i'll back that up. saleen, when in a hole, stop digging...

[SALEEN S7R]

lol, wow there was a lot of small little cars that would never top 160mph even on the camel straight, big deal. And I remember seeing the race and they really didnt show u much of the field back after the first 6 cars. Formula Renault is one of the worst single seater series around in my opinion. Formula 3 is even better than that, at least they have some good quality drivers.

Nope Renault v6 will improve the show, and Renault and ISL (the event organisers) obviously agree. I dont know Russ maybe u are right, but I dont think so and I for one trust Renaults and the organisers Judgement.

[bella]

i think i'm going to have to resort to violence here.
you've said yourself you're not a fan of formula renault, and don't watch it that much so please refrain from passing judgement on it. the drvers who were in the series last year were certainly some of the best new talent in the world, and if you don't believe me, well, your tough luck really. you won't be saying they're a load of rubbish in a few years when they've filtered through to your precious gt series and f3000.

[SALEEN S7R]

No no, its not the matter I dont belive u, more of a matter F1 teams dont belive u. As Ive said there has been 0 Formula Renault drivers graduate straight to F1 in recent years. Now though with the Renault v6 series they may well do, because they actually resemble and have a speed not majorly dis-similar to a F1 car. Ive said I dont watch Formula Renault which is true - I dont but I do watch the European series, and as u have said before u dont recive Eurosport so at most u would have seen 2 races in the 2002 season at Donnington and Silverstone.

Ive seen all the races on Eurosport because the Eurocup wasnt actually a bad standard of drivers, the national Formula Renault though for me at least wasnt anywhere near as good as British F3 and the Euro Formula Renault. So no, Im not in a postition to judge the national series but I am the Euro series, everyone who has seen either series is in a postition to judge for themselves.

[bella]

of course there haven't been any formula renault drivers graduate to f1 in recent years - cough cough felipe massa and kimi raikkonen - it's a just starting out series, you can't put these drivers in cars with f3000 engines in them!

just one point tho - the eurocup is a bit of a different kettle of fish.

and you say you saw the donington eurocup race? who won that again? by how many seconds? and which series was he from?

case rested.

[SALEEN S7R]

No no, Felippe Massa won the Renault title yes, then went to Euro F3000 won the 2001 title then came to F1, he didnt jump from Renault to F1. And as its turned out he hasnt done well being dropped by Sauber and fighting for the 2nd Jordan seat with Formula Nippon champion Ralph Firman. Hes yet to prove himself I think, and Peter Sauber agrees, and Eddie Jordan isnt too sure either or hed have signed him over Firman a long time ago.

Raikonen has done well from Renault granted, but thats only 1 driver, and although hes been fast his race performances havent been as good. Although this isnt really about who has come from the old renault cars, this is about Renault v6 series, the fact that Renault has dumped the Euro series after a short time as u just said says a lot to me. They obviously think the drivers deserve better cars for a European series than a National series. Renault V6 is going ahead whether anyone likes it or not and it will probably be sucessful, and even if its not Renault can always bring back the Eurocup series, so its a win win situation either way.

Enough said.

[bella]

but what i said. no-one expects anyone to jump from renault to f1, it's naive and stupid. 9 times out of 10 you'd be left with someone without a clue what they're doing with a load of data. sauber just hit lucky with kimi raikkonen.

the problem with the eurocup was combining different levels of scrutineering and levels of skills and expectations with the car. the advantage was it gave the national series drivers a chance to go and play at some serious tracks like spa. some did well, some didn't have time to learn it.

[flor]

all the ppl who went from 3000 to f1 used 3000 as a parking lot because there werent free seats

[SALEEN S7R]

Well, Formula Renault is the same kind of level as say, British F3 correct? Well F3 has attracted F1 drivers in recent years the latest being, Sato, and Button. If im not correct in thinking that the National Formula Renault and British F3 lap times are similar then I apologise, but I belive they are within 1 second of each other or there about on average.

The national Formula Renault series should attract some more F1 teams this year than F3 anyway as it stands as it has live tv coverage on Motors TV, where as F3 will only have the Channel 4 delayed coverage.

[Russfeld]

how can you not like FRS but support Super Series? its the same concept

[SALEEN S7R]

lol, the regular Formula Renaults I dont like because for me personally, they are too small, and dont have the speed. I know lots of people do like the regular cars, but each to their own. Normally I wont watch single seater racing below F3000, although I do keep a eye on whats going on in British F3 from time to time. Formula Renault V6 whilst it isnt quite as fast as F3000 looks like a real racing car to me, they are capable of good top end speeds and have a lot of grip, the tracks they will be racing at are also mainly world class, the national series isnt. As I say though I did watch the Eurocup series as the driving talent wasnt that bad and the tracks were extrmely good.

I guess its all down to opinons at the end of the day, as long as there is 20 cars on the grid at the start of the V6 series then the championship will be fine and will probably pick up a few more teams later in the year. The cars Renault have said have long life engines for up to 2 years. Still, u like the National series and the old Eurocup, I prefer the V6 cars. Lets just agree to disagree.

[Russfeld]

you're obsessd with top speed. Go watch NHRA

Even if there are 25 cars on the Super Renault grid i wont be happy, because it meant a potential grid of 40 FRS didnt happen.

[SALEEN S7R]

NHRA? whats that? And yes I guess I am obsessed with top speed, but then theres nothing wrong in that is there? I also like to see cars that look like RACING cars, and to me the national Renault cars and British F3 cars dont. Thats just how I see them.

Now the Renault v6 cars look like and are real racing cars in my eyes, as I said its all down to opinons though.

[Muppet]

Saleen S7R you need your eyes testing! ;-)

I saw the V6 at Donington and to me it looks just like "yet another" Formula car. I hoped the V6 noise it should have made would interest me more but it didn't. Still, good luck to them if they get a decent grid.

...if only all racing cars sounded like Aussie V8s, British GTs or ASCARs then I would be a very happy bunny.

[SALEEN S7R]

Yeah but the Donnington thing was a publicity stunt not a test, and it was the first time it had ever hit the track, now theyve tested at Monza, and say the car hit 175mph on a damp track with a medium-high downforce setting, they said if they ran in low downforce spec with the new spec tyres the cars could hit 185mph.

Wait until the start of the season to really compare the lap times, and I think a lot of people will be suprised at how fast they actually are.

[*formula3*]

formula renault is necessary to develop young drivers! you can´t put 16 or 18 year old guys who haven´t done much single seaters racing in a f3000 cockpit or in a renault v6...they need to develop in lower series...and the eurocup was a great chance for them to present themselves on an internatiol level without increasing the budget that much

i don´t think that many young drivers could go straight from karting to v6 and so they have to do some lower series before stepping up, but with the v6 is not as attractive as FR for the young blokes and when they are more expirienced they will put their budget in F3 or F3000

[John Clucas]

At the moment (in Europe at least) most drivers will have to prove themselves in F3 - because that's where the real competition is. However, it won't necessarily always be the case. It's not because F3 is an intrinsically wonderful formula - it's just that if you can't hack it there, you won't hack it in F1. If V6 takes off and top drivers go there - maybe as a cheaper temporary parking orbit after F3, rather than F3000 - it will become an increasingly attractive as a next step after FF or FR. If the level of competition becomes as good F3 it COULD replace BOTH F3 and F3000. I don't think it will happen - F3 will wake up and reduce it's costs, but they'd better wake up before Super Renault takes hold, or it may be too late.
The situation is much the same as it was with FF and FR. In the past FF carried more prestige than FR because that's where the top drivers went (despite Renault being technically superior). That's not true any more and although Ford is looking healthier this year, I don't believe it will ever regain it's premier position - though it might regain ground if Renault costs gets too close to F3 class B

[Mr Jinxx]

Totally agree with JC. Renault V6 has a great opportunity to take a huge swipe at F3. And F3000 as well. F3 guys should be afraid....

Formula Renault is not the same as F3 Saleen ... F3 is a good chunk quicker, and 3 times as expensive for a season. F3 is a step above FRenault