Why was Raikkonen always so overrated?

[Inigo Montoya]

Low blow Peter. Low blow ...

[Fish_Flake]

For what it's worth, Jim Clark's career record shows that he either won or broke the car trying. The fact that he had a high number of retirements, even for his era, seems to be a forgotten one. If Internet message boards existed in 1964, we'd be having this same exhaustive exchange of critical hyperbole about why he couldn't seem to bring the car home often enough.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Fish_Flake

For what it's worth, Jim Clark's career record shows that he either won or broke the car trying.

Was it not the same for all Lotus drivers though? Chapman's creations were famously marginal with regards to reliability.

[cds_uk]

On the face of it though, and i know there is far more to it than face value, Kimi leaves Mclaren, Mclaren reliability improves, Kimi joins Ferrari, Ferrari reliability is sketchy for the first time in years, is he just unlucky or is he hard on cars?

[deeks6]

Originally Posted by Fish_Flake

For what it's worth, Jim Clark's career record shows that he either won or broke the car trying. The fact that he had a high number of retirements, even for his era, seems to be a forgotten one. If Internet message boards existed in 1964, we'd be having this same exhaustive exchange of critical hyperbole about why he couldn't seem to bring the car home often enough.

Please don't mention Jim Clark in a thread on Raikkonnen ... Raikkonnen could never be seriously mentioned in comparison to Clark - for anything.

[mrsweety]

# Räikkönen holds the joint record of 7 wins in a single season without winning the World Title (2005), shared with four time World Champion Alain Prost, who initially set the record in 1984 and matched it in 1988, and also with Michael Schumacher, in 2006.

# In the 2005 season, he also equalled Michael Schumacher's record of 10 fastest race laps in a season, set in 2004.

# He currently holds the ninth highest record for total fastest laps at 22, thus making him the highest ranked driver still active. (Up to and including Silverstone 2007)

# He is the first driver to win on his Ferrari debut since Nigel Mansell at the 1989 Brazilian Grand Prix and the first to win, set the fastest lap and Pole Position on his Ferrari debut since Juan Manuel Fangio.

[Peter Mallett]

Exactly. Bloody useless.

[cds_uk]

Originally Posted by deeks6

Please don't mention Jim Clark in a thread on Raikkonnen ... Raikkonnen could never be seriously mentioned in comparison to Clark - for anything.

amen to that deeks.

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally Posted by mrsweety

# Räikkönen holds the joint record of 7 wins in a single season without winning the World Title (2005), shared with four time World Champion Alain Prost, who initially set the record in 1984 and matched it in 1988, and also with Michael Schumacher, in 2006.

# In the 2005 season, he also equalled Michael Schumacher's record of 10 fastest race laps in a season, set in 2004.

# He currently holds the ninth highest record for total fastest laps at 22, thus making him the highest ranked driver still active. (Up to and including Silverstone 2007)

# He is the first driver to win on his Ferrari debut since Nigel Mansell at the 1989 Brazilian Grand Prix and the first to win, set the fastest lap and Pole Position on his Ferrari debut since Juan Manuel Fangio.

A hodge-podge of random convenient facts proves little. It's easier to win 7 races out of 19 than 7 out of 16 - especially when your team-mate is half-fit for most of the season. None of the other Ferrari debutants since Fangio have had a dominant car that weekend, and certainly not with their team-mate taken out of contention in qualifying. 22 fastest laps with so few wins only backs up the car-breaker theory.

[deeks6]

Originally Posted by mrsweety

# Räikkönen holds the joint record of 7 wins in a single season without winning the World Title (2005), shared with four time World Champion Alain Prost, who initially set the record in 1984 and matched it in 1988, and also with Michael Schumacher, in 2006.

# In the 2005 season, he also equalled Michael Schumacher's record of 10 fastest race laps in a season, set in 2004.

# He currently holds the ninth highest record for total fastest laps at 22, thus making him the highest ranked driver still active. (Up to and including Silverstone 2007)

# He is the first driver to win on his Ferrari debut since Nigel Mansell at the 1989 Brazilian Grand Prix and the first to win, set the fastest lap and Pole Position on his Ferrari debut since Juan Manuel Fangio.

Whoopee-doo ...

In Fangio's day, they didnt even have 10 GP's in a season - those "records" are completely meaningless. All those fastest laps without wins PROVE he is a car breaker!

Why didnt you add:

* First driver to achieve a non-stop lap dance for 12 hours
* First Ferrari driver to spit the dummy and go home without debrief
* Only driver to have fastest car for 5 successive years without winning WDC
* First man to lose to a calculator in a personality contest
* Awarded most inaudible driver in history

They are just as meaningful ...

[Dutton]

What we should be going by is ratios (or %, fractions).

That helps a bit, although there is, of course, a ridiculous number of different things to consider on top.

[Peter Mallett]

So it doesn't help really then.

[Mr Revhead]

i havnt read the entire thread..... so please excuse me if someone already mentioned this...

but to those that are saying kimi breaks the car...
how? you cant over rev them.... you cant shift too fast.....
from memory (prob wrong!) other than monaco this year, all is retirements i can recall have been things like electrics or hydrolics.
nothing (aprt from monaco) that you can blame him for....

[safc_fan89]

Originally Posted by Alonso 3x WDC

You can't say that for sure. Anything could've happened if his car hadn't broken down. Also his engineers say that he often pushes the car too hard and causes damage.

Just like you can't say Alonso has won 3 titles. Cos he hasn't! Consult the record books and you will see yu have nothing to back up your claim. Argument flawed and invalid.

[mrsweety]

Originally Posted by deeks6

* Only driver to have fastest car for 5 successive years without winning WDC
* First man to lose to a calculator in a personality contest
* Awarded most inaudible driver in history

They are just as meaningful ...

To be honest mate unless you fancy men why would that be an issue? anyway there's plenty of women that think he's one cool dude his wife looks rather nice.

If not this year he'll be WDC very soon.

He's 27 right? so I guess another 10 years in F1? ;-) and you forget he did 22 car races before he hit F1 *22*, how many others have done that? the guy is stunning.

Watch and enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MThk7FJ6TRM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAadII62rnU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odyQuBkw1p0

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by mrsweety

To be honest mate unless you fancy men why would that be an issue? anyway there's plenty of women that think he's one cool dude his wife looks rather nice.

Excuse me, but why must one be a homosexual in order to comment on a driver's personality?

[Inigo Montoya]

Straying pretty far off topic now, fellas.... If you have to argue about how good he is, stick to his performance on the track, please

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by mrsweety

He's 27 right? so I guess another 10 years in F1?

Can't see him wanting to hang around that long.

[f1manoz]

IMO Kimi isn't over-rated. He's obviously very quick, is always pushing hard but perhaps lacks to tactical nous of an Alonso or Schumacher.

Kimi will always give 100% whatever the circumstances. His philosophy seems to be 'I'll push until it breaks'. Exciting to watch, but can lead to problems...

[deeks6]

Originally Posted by mrsweety

If not this year he'll be WDC very soon.

No, not this year or any other ...

Originally Posted by mrsweety

He's 27 right? so I guess another 10 years in F1? ;-) and you forget he did 22 car races before he hit F1 *22*, how many others have done that? the guy is stunning.

I'll bet you right now he won't be in F1 in 10 years, in fact in 10 years, most fans will reply "who?" at the mention of him. The only "stunning" thing about Breakenem is the rapture his fans get themselves in about nothing.

Originally Posted by mrsweety

Watch and enjoy

Sorry, would rather watch a good driver ...

[Mr Revhead]

i reckon a better target for abuse for not performing would be schumacher

[Fish_Flake]

Can we put all logical fallacies aside for a moment? Regardless of whether you would like to build a thousand-foot-high shrine for the Iceman at the North Pole to celebrate the King of All Racing, or a time machine that would transport you to Finland in 1979 to kill the newborn Kimi and save the world from the horrors of witnessing his presence, I think we should all agree that at the end of the day it is up to the man himself to prove his worth on the track to his supporters and naysayers. And can we stop having a flame war erupt on this topic every week?

[strider]

Actually, I reckon people have missed something that has come to light over the last three meetings and is probably the result of Kimi's close collaboration with the Australian, Chris Dyer, who was formerly Schumi's race engineer.

If you examine Kimi's wins at Magny Cours and Silverstone, they were the result of a mixture of strategy and blinding speed when required, not just speed alone.

At Silverstone he was not on pole as a result of his own mistake in qualifying, but in the first stint he just sat behind Hamilton, looking after his tyres and conserving fuel. The plan nearly backfired when Lewis slowed quite noticeably towards the end of the stint because his tyres had gone off. Kimi even had a couple of looks at getting by, because Alonso was closing up, but it worked out well enough in the end.

Another thing, he may not have been sparkling in the post qualifying Nurburgring press conference, but what he did say was absolutely true. No flannel or pretence, just the truth. Read this. He was slower than Massa in Q1 and Q2, but when they put some fuel in the car for Q3 he was quicker. Even the pole position lap was a controlled and measured lap. Personal bests in every sector, but Alonso would have been quicker were it not his mistake in the second sector.

Maybe Kimi remembered his mistake at Silverstone and figured the best way to get pole on the one and only run they had was to keep it just fractionally in check and drive a quick, clean lap. That's what he did and it worked.

[Noah]

Originally Posted by mrsweety

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MThk7FJ6TRM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAadII62rnU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odyQuBkw1p0

Kimi had developed a curious Spanish accent by that third video, but good to watch anyway!

[KBM]

I can’t say if Kimi is overrated. As he has yet to win a wdc, I have yet to rate him.

Now, how about a 7-time wdc who did not fully deserve many wins leading to those wdcs. Now that’s overrated.

Speaking of needing your teammate to gift you with wins, how about that guy Fangio, whose teammate gave up a car. Subtract one wdc from that man.

Or how about a 4-time wdc who gets out-qualified around Monaco by his teammate, by almost 1.5 seconds. The Professor, my foot. You’d be smooth too if you weren’t really going that fast.

Come on people! Stop picking on the Kimi Nobodies of this world and pick on some real wimps!

Or how about the so-called world driving championship itself. 17 races around the world and yet, on any given Sunday, there is more overtaking in the checkout counter of my local grocery store.

Bah, humbug!