Supercars Gen 3 (2022)

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Compromised

Why not Indy Lights?

The series US connections have really grown in recent years. It's actually quite impressive to see the amount of American involvement.

So, capitalize.

Make a true pathway to the US (forget about F1). Scotty could very well be the pioneer for this model (sorry Marcus).

Established rules and regulations. Manufacturer involvement. Legitimate potential to reach Indy.

Cost could be a negative - not sure what a season of Indy Lights would run you.

Lack of ovals here is another concern. Could be built I guess.

Indy Lights can’t even crack ten cars on the grid in the US, how would it work out here?

S5000 is the last chance for meaningful open-wheel racing in Australia

[Just Do It!]

After today's announcement by GM, the Gen 3 rulebook is now more critical than ever before.

[bludvl_x19]

Originally Posted by Just Do It!

After today's announcement by GM, the Gen 3 rulebook is now more critical than ever before.

The Gen 3 rulebook already exists. It is known by lots of others as GT3.

[Mixer]

Oh good let's have cars that cost twice as much as a Supercar, that are far more expensive to repair, and depreciate to nothing when the latest one comes out..

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by bludvl_x19

The Gen 3 rulebook already exists. It is known by lots of others as GT3.

Great, cant wait........................to turn off.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Oh good let's have cars that cost twice as much as a Supercar

V8 Supercar $550,000 AUD
Audi R8 LMS $720,000 AUD
Lamborghini Huracan GT3 $735,000 AUD
Honda NSX GT3 $750,000 AUD

That's hardly "twice as much as a Supercar".

depreciate to nothing when the latest one comes out..

Whether it's a GT3 race car or not, a Ferrari, Porsche or McLaren is still a Ferrari, Porsche or McLaren. They hold their value rather well AFAIK.

that are far more expensive to repair

Well it's a Ferrari, Porsche, McLaren etc. Of course it costs a lot to repair. That's hardly newsworthy.

Porsche Carrera Cup cars for example cost plenty to repair with genuine Porsche parts, yet still form a strong grid year after year. With the used examples retaining strong resale value and racing on for decades at national and state level.

A spaceframe Mustang GT3 with fibreglass panels would be cheaper to repair for those wanting to run that. While the teams aligned with manufacturers (Mercedes, Audi etc) wouldn't have too many complaints about repair costs.

Originally Posted by Sandgroper

Great, cant wait........................to turn off.

The depth of manufacturers of the GT3 class simply cannot be matched. It is by far the best way to get Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Aston Martin and others involved in the Supercars series.

Unless you would prefer to watch a Ford Mustang Cup, Sandgroper?

[mayhem]

I'd be giving serious consideration to making Gen 3 the MARC cars. It might fly in the face of the support Ford Racing has thrown at the current Mustang, but the economics, speed and looks must surely make the MARC cars a good option. Develop a Mercedes body for Roland, a BMW body for WAU and away we go.

[Compromised]

Even if GT3 isn't double the cost, any cost increase for Gen 3 is unconsciouable - there needs to be a significant DECREASE in running costs moving forward

[tux]

I might be missing something obvious but why would Supercars move to a GT3 ruleset? It’s never been a GT series has it? Also after watching the Kelly Racing series on YouTube it’s mad how much work/resources & people teams employ, while reducing that would be good for reducing costs do you think teams want to reduce their role in constructing and maintaining their cars? Finally some of the repair jobs that teams have been able to do after accidents are simply not possible on a GT3 car, they aren’t easy to repair and even some small accidents can result in chassis damage. Don’t get me wrong I enjoy GT3 racing and Supercars but I just don’t understand why Supercars would adopt that kinda ruleset.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

V8 Supercar $550,000 AUD
Audi R8 LMS $720,000 AUD
Lamborghini Huracan GT3 $735,000 AUD
Honda NSX GT3 $750,000 AUD

That's hardly "twice as much as a Supercar".

"Twice as much" was maybe an exaggeration but those GT3 prices quoted aren't the highest I've heard - but then maybe the figures I've been quoted by people actually looking at buying one include freight and a spares package - both of which of course are needed to go racing here in Oz.

There is also the matter of the (seemingly annual) update kits for GT3 cars - whether they are twice or 1.5 times more expensive, they definitely are more expensive than current Supercars, and there's a general view in the sport that the current cars are too expensive.

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Whether it's a GT3 race car or not, a Ferrari, Porsche or McLaren is still a Ferrari, Porsche or McLaren. They hold their value rather well AFAIK.

Yes and no. If you continue to spend up on them, buying the annual update kits, then they hold reasonable value whilst still the current model. Once a new model comes out though, they're just an old, out of date race car - values tend to drop significantly on those, until they reach classic status in a few decades.

GT3 cars are definitely more expensive but to be fair, may cost less to run in some ways. To me the biggest hurdle for VASA in going that way is that the regulations for the cars come from overseas and thus VASA would no longer be able to control the technical side of their category. That's a big change of philosophy but who knows, it could happen.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Sandgroper

Great, cant wait........................to turn off.

Didn't you enjoy the B12hr? I thought it was great.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by mayhem

I'd be giving serious consideration to making Gen 3 the MARC cars. It might fly in the face of the support Ford Racing has thrown at the current Mustang, but the economics, speed and looks must surely make the MARC cars a good option. Develop a Mercedes body for Roland, a BMW body for WAU and away we go.

What about engines, are you thinking that they would all run the 5.2 Coyote?

[mayhem]

Originally Posted by bluesport

What about engines, are you thinking that they would all run the 5.2 Coyote?

Would it matter if they did? The series has got to stop this thing of manufacturer reliance. Sure if a manufacturer wanted to jump on board, great, but it's a one engine, one chassis formula. Stick whatever body on it you like.

[Compromised]

Originally Posted by mayhem

Would it matter if they did? The series has got to stop this thing of manufacturer reliance. Sure if a manufacturer wanted to jump on board, great, but it's a one engine, one chassis formula. Stick whatever body on it you like.

Exactly. Less parity discussion, cheaper, not beholden to the whims of manufacturers...

Seriously what's the downside?

There will still be an element of tribalism, just Red Bull vs Coke, Shell vs Penrite, driver vs driver etc.

What is the with this series sadistic obsession with manufacturers? I'm guessing someone gets something out of it...

[mayhem]

It's 1998 thinking in 2020. Forget manufacturers, as long as IP isn't 'stolen' by running various bodies, stick whatever the hell you want on the MARC chassis. Plus we'll get a Mustang that doesn't look like Homer Simpson designed it.

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Didn't you enjoy the B12hr? I thought it was great.

I enjoy it as a once off, iM not sure how I feel about it on a week to week basis.
Maybe Im just sad and sour on the whole Holden thing sadly

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

V8 Supercar $550,000 AUD
Audi R8 LMS $720,000 AUD
Lamborghini Huracan GT3 $735,000 AUD
Honda NSX GT3 $750,000 AUD

That's hardly "twice as much as a Supercar".



Whether it's a GT3 race car or not, a Ferrari, Porsche or McLaren is still a Ferrari, Porsche or McLaren. They hold their value rather well AFAIK.



Well it's a Ferrari, Porsche, McLaren etc. Of course it costs a lot to repair. That's hardly newsworthy.

Porsche Carrera Cup cars for example cost plenty to repair with genuine Porsche parts, yet still form a strong grid year after year. With the used examples retaining strong resale value and racing on for decades at national and state level.

A spaceframe Mustang GT3 with fibreglass panels would be cheaper to repair for those wanting to run that. While the teams aligned with manufacturers (Mercedes, Audi etc) wouldn't have too many complaints about repair costs.





The depth of manufacturers of the GT3 class simply cannot be matched. It is by far the best way to get Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Aston Martin and others involved in the Supercars series.

Unless you would prefer to watch a Ford Mustang Cup, Sandgroper?

As I mentioned in another post, I dont mind watching these as a once off, but on a week to week basis, I dont know. I guess the racing would be more even and competitive than a regular F1.
I guess Im just saddened and aour on the whole Holden demise

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

V8 Supercar $550,000 AUD
Audi R8 LMS $720,000 AUD
Lamborghini Huracan GT3 $735,000 AUD
Honda NSX GT3 $750,000 AUD

Those prices might be FOB prices directly converted but they do not reflect a landed cost in Australia, with tax, duties and freight paid.

You also didn't mention the Mclaren which is a lazy 440,000GBP so $850k FOB...

Guarantee you are not landing a Huracan GT3 Evo for under $1m. It does seem Reiter really like making expensive cars.

The NSX seems cheap but it also seems to be not very good.

GT3 costs are out of control, you can drop $800k and then next year someone else has a faster widget and you're at the back.

If the car is $1m you have to drop $300k or more on parts, and that doesn't include a tub...

[rich07]

Reiter aren’t part of the Huracan project. It’s all in house now.

[Gaz170]

The idea is look at what overseas series are running, and see if there is anything that would work here. Possibly GTE or something, but not GT3.
If there is nothing worthwhile, rebodied MARC cars wouldn't be too bad, and at least keep the costs down.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Compromised

Even if GT3 isn't double the cost, any cost increase for Gen 3 is unconsciouable - there needs to be a significant DECREASE in running costs moving forward

This seems to me to be the most sensible starting point. Where a series has significant challenges, they're rarely solved by increasing costs.

As an outsider looking in, it always seemed to me that the great strength was in the teams. Yes, Ford v Holden was important, but also people seemed to support Gary Rogers or the Stone Bros or... etc. So effectively they could buy a car and then become the best/most popular/most fun team to run it and generate support that way. A rule book that goes back to that ethos would seem entirely sensible. One that can be modified to accommodate changing motor technology (hybrid/electric/something else) as it comes on stream would also be sensible.

Although it helps when they sound like V8s. Standing at the end of the pitwall at Surfers while 36 of these beasts set off is one of my marshalling highlights, and the noise they made was a fundamental part of that.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Woolley

the noise they made was a fundamental part of that.

A rumbling V8 engine is old-fashioned in 2020. An anachronism from days gone by when environmental issues weren't so front and centre.
Most people wouldn't dare to drive a V8 that produces over 300 g CO2/km, especially in the UK the road taxes and fuel excise alone put a dampener on any ambitions one might have to drive a VXR Monaro everyday.

Is Supercars going to be a series engaged with the future, or a retro series popular with over 40s?

Even with the more lenient taxation in Australia, most people drive four cylinder downsize turbos or hybrids, be it a 1.2L Renault Clio or a 2.0L Mercedes C300. Many prestige car buyers are replacing their Mercedes C300 with an engine-less Tesla Model 3 for that matter.

[Maggo]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

A rumbling V8 engine is old-fashioned in 2020. An anachronism from days gone by when environmental issues weren't so front and centre.
Most people wouldn't dare to drive a V8 that produces over 300 g CO2/km, especially in the UK the road taxes and fuel excise alone put a dampener on any ambitions one might have to drive a VXR Monaro everyday.

Is Supercars going to be a series engaged with the future, or a retro series popular with over 40s?

Even with the more lenient taxation in Australia, most people drive four cylinder downsize turbos or hybrids, be it a 1.2L Renault Clio or a 2.0L Mercedes C300. Many prestige car buyers are replacing their Mercedes C300 with an engine-less Tesla Model 3 for that matter.

I would not expel the currentfanbase and hope for new fans out of a people who are not interested in cars. I would continue with rumbling V8 but cheaper and without manufacturers money. At least for short term. The 40 plus viewers will not die the next 5-10 years. In the meantime you can still try to find a longterm solution, but I think overall motorracing is a dying breed.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Most people wouldn't dare to drive a V8 that produces over 300 g CO2/km, especially in the UK the road taxes and fuel excise alone put a dampener on any ambitions one might have to drive a VXR Monaro everyday.

Even with the more lenient taxation in Australia, most people drive four cylinder downsize turbos or hybrids, be it a 1.2L Renault Clio or a 2.0L Mercedes C300. Many prestige car buyers are replacing their Mercedes C300 with an engine-less Tesla Model 3 for that matter.

Supercars series is in Aus, not the UK - the road taxes etc in the UK don't come into it at all. Claim of "most people" in Australia driving 4 cyl downsize turbos or hybrids is wide of the mark. Whilst some parts of new car sales are heading that way, there are plenty of new cars sold here that don't fit that description and the total vehicle population here is roughly 22 times the size of the best retail sales year for new vehicles so recent trends for part of the market heading in the direction you describe do not translate to "most people".

Originally Posted by Maggo

I would not expel the currentfanbase and hope for new fans out of a people who are not interested in cars. I would continue with rumbling V8 but cheaper and without manufacturers money. At least for short term. The 40 plus viewers will not die the next 5-10 years. In the meantime you can still try to find a longterm solution, but I think overall motorracing is a dying breed.

Makes sense and scarily I suspect that there may be some truth to your final sentence.

[V8 Fireworks]

I had forgotten about this...

Organisers of New Zealand’s BNT V8s Championship have released technical details of its next generation platform which is set to hit race tracks in the 2020/21 season.

Having teased initial artwork of a Chevrolet Camaro, Ford Mustang, and Dodge Challenger, it is a car resembling the former which has been released, known as the ‘Pace V8GT ZC1’.

Other two-door bodies, including but not limited to Mustang- and Challenger-style shapes, are also possible.

Pace Innovations will in fact supply the cars, as a turnkey package for AUD 230,000 ex works.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/06/13...neration-cars/

Assuming Supercars want to remain a V8 muscle car series, it is a no brainer to align the with BNT V8 regulations.

The cost of the BNT V8 car is so much reasonable than the car of the future!