2021 Argentine touring car championships

[NaBUru38]

I know that the win requirement is a longtime tradition in TC. But I would prefer instead that the race winner got more points. The current points scale is 40-37-34-31-30, that's ridiculously flat.

[TuteZaek]

Yeah, its weird, while the series promotes winning races by requiring a victory, the benefits of said victory not only aren't big enough, but the weight penalty hurts a lot.
So there Is this situation where a lot of pilots with cars to win speculate and hold back. Especially with the playoff system.
Werner's 4 wins were almost suicidal for his championship, the car ended losing a lot of performance to the weight penalties in the playoff races, to the point losing on points with Lambiris on the mini-tournament, while having almost 200 points of advantage (660 vs 464 of Lambiris on 2nd) on the anual leaderboard.

It's almost as if Is encouraged to win just once.

[uesugi kenshin]

Do Top Race have any plans for a new range of cars, the current ones are getting rather old now, could they move to TCR as with the introduction of TCR South america there are now quite a number of these cars in the country.

[TuteZaek]

They were toying with 5 litres V8, the same as the CarX Supercars, since TR president, Levy, Is involved in both series, the engines would be maintained by Berta.
But nothing else came along since.

Toyota said that wants to involve its Lexus brand for next year.

As of using TCR, that would put them directly in competition with STC2000 and TN, while giving control, balance and technical independence to an external entity, idk if that a route that any of the main series in Argentina wants to take. They're, as we say here "managed by its owners".
Giving the team/technical culture of the main series here, its higly unlikely anyone adopting TCR on the near future, unless a big management change happens on the STC2000, and even then they wouldnt want It, on pride alone.

[FIRE]

I enjoyed the last STC2000 race.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by TuteZaek

As of using TCR, that would put them directly in competition with STC2000 and TN, while giving control, balance and technical independence to an external entity, idk if that a route that any of the main series in Argentina wants to take. They're, as we say here "managed by its owners".

True, but I think that the biggest issue is cost. STC2000 cars use lots of locally sourced parts, and that's a big advantage.

[NaBUru38]

Plenty of action last weekend in the TC and TC Pista:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD7xX3Esbd4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDX1N2EgNtA

[TuteZaek]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

True, but I think that the biggest issue is cost. STC2000 cars use lots of locally sourced parts, and that's a big advantage.

STC2000 cars cost the same and probably more than a TCR, they are made in-house by the teams, and they don't recoup the money by selling them to various series and teams as the TCR builders do.

Another thing that factors in is the already stablished know how and infraestructure of the teams and technics, that isnt compatible with the TCR "Buy 'n Race" model.

Finally brand representation also doesn't aligns with the argentine market (for now)

That said TGR Argentina was going to build the Corolla sedan TCR, at least was anounced earlier this year.

Its almost the same as the BTCC situation with TCR UK, but with another 4 series competing, the moment one goes TCR, most of the teams will migrate (or refocus, since some are on more than one) to any of the other series.

[FIRE]

TCR brought new energy to the European touring car scene. So yes TCR was very welcome.

In Argentina there's already plenty of touring car series so TCR is not needed.

Only problem for STC2000 could be manufacturers move away from sedan cars and rivalry from TC if they really change the cars (like the new Toyota).

In Brazil there's the Stock Car series and some series for smaller cars (something like Argentinian TN class 1/2). The series that looks like STC200 is struggling for entries or even collapsed. Don't think there's need for TCR.

[FIRE]

Any news about the Carolla TCR in Argentinian media?

[TuteZaek]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Any news about the Carolla TCR in Argentinian media?

Not much since the anouncement on April/May, don't know much about the development times of the TCR, maybe now, with the STC2000 championship finished they'll start showing progress.
Wonder how much of the STC2000 Corolla transfers to the TCR

Maybe they're waiting for the TC Camry (already advanced in construction, some say almost ready to paint) to show everything together?

[NaBUru38]

Car sales in Argentina in November 2021:


1. Fiat Cronos 2340
2. Peugeot 208 1587
3. Toyota Yaris 895
4. Toyota Corolla 823
5. Renault Sandero 816
6. Chevrolet Cruze 655
7. Toyota Etios 650
8. Toyota Corolla Cross 506
9. Citroen C4 Cactus 491
10. Ford Ecosport 490
11. Volkswagen Taos 455
13. Chevrolet Onix 392
16. Volkswagen Gol Trend 284
17. Renault Logan 280
21. Renault Nuevo Logan 233
25. Volkswagen Polo 178
26. Fiat Argo 116
28. Volkswagen Nivus 105
30. Honda HR-V 93
31. Volkswagen Virtus 89
37. Ford Mondeo 38
39. Volkswagen T-Cross 35
45. Volkswagen Vento 27
48. Volkswagen Nuevo Polo 26
58. Peugeot 308 Sedan 18
59. Peugeot 308 17
62. Honda Fit 15



C-segment hatchback and sedan sales have plummeted. That's why I wonder if some may decide to enter B-segment sedans like the Cronos and Logan.

[TuteZaek]

The problem isnt that there Is no sales, but that there Is no models, the Corolla and Cruze are the only ones on sale/production now, all the others are dead. The Focus, for example, was retired being a top5.

But yes, B segment is the future it seems, unless (please dont, please dont) someone proposes SUVs or crossovers a la Corolla Cross.
The thing is, if Is possible to made both segments coexist or a total change Is needed.

Whatever happens, It would be for 2023 at earliest, too late for a change now.

Of the brands racing Honda and Renault are the ones in dire need for a change, the first are a mystery, lately they don't seem to do anything that other brands do, both comercially and racing, they dont have anything on both segments, till the still-not-here City,
Renault comes as a succesfull team, being on the tittle fight consistently on the last years, the Fluence Is a succesfull STC2000 base, long and wide, changing to the Logan (sedan route) or worse, the Sandero (comercially has more sense) would not be easy with the current status quo, both cars are too different on concept to the Fluence.

[TuteZaek]

On the TC side of things: Rody Agut, who did Werner's engine, confirmed as the engine provider for the new Camry, that would be raced by the Dole team under TGR banner, same arrangement as the TGR TCPU team, he also does Jakos engine on his TC Dodge. Talking about Jakos, Is almost confirmed as the second TGR pilot.

Werner Is changing teams again, he will not be part of the Guri Martinez Competición next year. That said, most of his technical team an mechanics will follow him to a new team that Is being formed.

There will be 4 new Dodge Pilots, all coming from TC Pista: Candela, Iribarne, Carinelli and Ramos. So it expected that there will be some extra Dodges, still to see the final numbers, since, if Toyota move is confirmed Jakos actual Dodge would be free. Save for newcomers Toyota, Dodge will still have the smallest field.

[hondafan37]

On Thursday 12/16, Toyota Argentina will present its TC team, with the unprecedented Camry TC.

[TuteZaek]

They're fast, 2 months since anouncement, they started working on the car just before Toay's race, and next week will be presented.
I'll asume it would be static, not on running order, but, who knows, afterall the first Ranger TCPU took 28 days to build since project aproval using the same base chasis (Torino) but modified to acomodate the longer wheelbase, and the other models followed one afther another, including the wider Amarok and smaller Toro, so the base Is versatile enough

As for the drivers, Rossi (already confirmed) and Jakos is my bet. The kid already knows the team (Its his father's), did really well on the pickups and being a development year its a safer choice than Santero, having two number 1 drivers on launching year Is asking for trouble.

The first test drivers, tho, would be representative drivers from other brands, to prevent sandbagging, Id guess Castellano for Dodge, Pernia, Benvenutti or one of the Máquin Parts guys for Torino, Gianini or De Benedictis for Ford (Werner being with TGR on the Pickups should rule him out) and Canapino or Ledesma for Chevrolet

[TuteZaek]

So, Renault Sport retires from racing in Argentina, basically killing its SuperTC2000 team while not being clear about its TC deal with the Trotta Racing team.
The move, they say, is due Renault globally focusing its racing programe under the Alpine brand.
Also its not clear whats gonna happen, if anything, with Fórmula Renault 2.0

https://www.renaultsport.com.ar/ampl...p?id_noti=1961

[TuteZaek]

The Renault Sport Torino team continues in Turismo Carretera in 2022, they aren't actually on the Renault Sport Argentina umbrella, but on the Renault dealerships asociation, so at most they'll change the name to reflect that.

Trotta is still waiting for Renault to confirm support for a TCPU Alaskan, they already have the structure on the shop, with RS gone was expecting to not to happen, but maybe there Is still chance.

I hope this extend for the STC2000 team, they could run a semi-works program at least for 2022

[uesugi kenshin]

I guess Ambrogio could the Fluences with pay drivers next season ?

[TuteZaek]

The cars will need to run next year, for the series sake, if not, things are grim for the STC2000.
Depends how much money is needed, could work, even then, the DTA Argos were retired, the DTA wouldn't run them and nobody else wanted, being private on STC2000 isn't easy.

[FIRE]

With Fluence out of production it's logic they quit STC2000.

The reason to quit all their involvement in motorsport because of the Alpine brand is pretty lame.

Would make more sense to have some involment in TC (like they plan with the dealers) and have semi-factory involvement in Pickups.

[uesugi kenshin]

It seems that the top four series were all pretty stable in terms of drivers and teams until the introduction of TC pickups which now seems to have jumped into being the second most important series, much to the weakening of both STC2000 and Toprace.

[TuteZaek]

Not only the pickups, TN jumped forward too in the later years, normally was the "other series" on the TopRace weekend, and as such was treated in by carburando on the coverage, after they went "alone" (actually ACTC helped) they grew alot.
Now its grid has the top TC and STC2000 pilots (save a few) fighting for titles and races, the thing that was the Top Race ethos and reason for existing.

When the Pickups finally go national, they'll be a PITA for the STC2000 and especially for TopRace

[TuteZaek]

Abdala (Fiesta-Bucci) wins the TNC2 championship on the last race, in San Juan Villicum (4th series in a row racing here, 3rd ending its championship) with finishing 3rd with Tedeschi winning the race, and finishing 2nd in the series.

Now only the Top Race champioships left, next week (nice that they don't race on the same week as they normally do)

On another C2 news, Bessone's team (the ones runing the Corolla for TGR in C3) will debut the Yaris next year in the smaller series, giving the official status on C3, maybe we'll see a TGR livery on C2 too

[NaBUru38]

Yesterday I went to El Pinar, and Eddy Mión's Ford Ranger TC Pick Up did a few laps. It's LOUD!