[BTCC] BTCC Brands Hatch indy rounds 1,2 & 3 2012

[Greem]

The solid white line denotes the circuit boundary. Kerbs are usually outside it.

[slummingangel]

Originally Posted by Greem

The solid white line denotes the circuit boundary. Kerbs are usually outside it.

thanks

[cxx666]

I was absolutely gutted at not having been able to go this weekend, but in all honesty after seeing so many incidents on reflection I'm kinda glad that I saved the considerable expense it would have no doubt cost me.

Plato wasn't on with his move on Newsham, this was the first of 30 races and may well have been Newsham's first win so to dive up the inside for a gap which wasn't really there was was unnecessary. Real shame to see so many other cars damaged in the other incidents over the weekend across all the series, particularly when Druids was turned into a rather expensive car park.

I quite liked Moody in the commentary box. He certainly wasn't quite at the same level of excitable as Edwards is but he's definitly a worthy replacement. Seems to know his stuff and has done his homework. Ok so he got a couple of bits wrong, but no more than Harvey and Edwards did in recent years. Its all part of commentating on live tv.

[BillWiskins]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

For the person who asked how did Foster end up on his roof, he had a big powerslide on the exit of Druids and couldn't/didn't save it, he then went into the inside barrier backwards and hard, then flipped. No other cars were involved. I was sat in the Paddock grandstand and saw it all.

Thank you Sodemo. I had to do a double take when the camera cut to an upside-down BMW.

Druids in race three reminded me of a Clio Cup race at Thruxton, some years ago now. I was stood at the chicane when I believe someone dropped brake fluid on the exit, and suddenly two out of every three cars that came through sailed into the wall.

All in all, an expensive weekend then, this. And on the subject of Plato (again), I think he was massively over-optimistic at best about the move on Newsham, but he was downright wrong to suggest that it was Newsham's fault in interview.

[westfieldbend]

Originally Posted by trebor901

well then they need some damn good training on how to use them properly because they are awful at times

The TV schedule and putting on a good show are far more important than preventing damage to a car at a BTCC meeting. The marshals and circuit staff at druids would be acting as directed by race control, not using their own initiative.

I assume the TV schedule is the reason why BTCC race 2 and the Sunday clio race were not red flagged.

[Sodemo]

Yep, lots of incidents in most of the races actually. There was pretty much 1-3 cars spinning off at Paddock in every race. There was also a really nasty incident on the pit straight involving the Ginetta GT's.

I lament the costs involved in fixing these expensive cars and I also lament the amount of time wasted behind safety cars. Race 2 should have been red flagged as should the Clio race. Hope all the cars aren't too badly damaged and they can all get out for Donington in two weeks.

I'll be there.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by westfieldbend

The TV schedule and putting on a good show are far more important than preventing damage to a car at a BTCC meeting.

I was flagging at Donington on Saturday for the BARC/Motors TV Live meeting. There was an incident in one of the Caterham races (surprise!) that saw 6 or 7 cars off between McLeans and Coppice. We had an "all hands on deck" period at the end of the session where it was made very clear that there was very little time to clear up because the advert break was only so many minutes long. Good thing Caterhams are pretty light because we actually manhandled one on to the back of a recovery truck!

[Tom Bee]

Originally Posted by westfieldbend

The TV schedule and putting on a good show are far more important than preventing damage to a car at a BTCC meeting. The marshals and circuit staff at druids would be acting as directed by race control, not using their own initiative.

Well I would of thought it was their decision to drag the car forward (and therefore rip the front off). The car should of been pulled back out of the gravel and then pulled (forward or back) to a place of safety.

[mini1400]

Originally Posted by Tom Bee

Well I would of thought it was their decision to drag the car forward (and therefore rip the front off). The car should of been pulled back out of the gravel and then pulled (forward or back) to a place of safety.

When they did try to pull the car back the towing point failed.... Sorry, the teams need to learn that towing points should be secure and up the job...

[Stephen Green]

Let me clear a few things up for you.

1. The towing strap was fixed to a small bar behind the front valance and not to the main frame of the car which is why it came away so easily. The offending parts were placed in the boot of the car for the scrutineers to look at after the race. It was not the fault of the JCB driver who I can assure you is very experienced in recovering cars from the gravel.

2. It is very easy to sit behind the debris fence and criticise the work of marshals who were working flat out to get the cars out of the gravel during race 3. I was one of two Post Chiefs at Druids this weekend and immediately called for a race stop when the cars came in one after the other. There was nothing the marshals could have, or should have done better. You cannot push cars out of a deep gravel bed, it is impossible even with so many there to help. Our main concern was the safety of the drivers and in getting the oil dressed so that racing could recommence once the cars were removed from the gravel. I hope those casting criticism noticed that marshals from other posts came to help as did the rescue crews, we worked as a team to get the situation under control and sorted in the safest and speediest time.

At no time did I hear the crowd jeering or shouting but what I did notice was that as soon as the accidents happened the number of people who were in the spectator area doubled or tripled, what does that say I wonder?

All the marshals did a fantastic job throughout the weekend and my sincere thanks go to everyone who helped, especially those on my team.

[westfieldbend]

Originally Posted by Tom Bee

Well I would of thought it was their decision to drag the car forward (and therefore rip the front off). The car should of been pulled back out of the gravel and then pulled (forward or back) to a place of safety.

I doubt it very much, race control would have wanted the telehandler kept off the circuit if possible and would have at least specified what position they wanted the car to be left in.

The better option would have been for the 4X4 to tow in backwards either to the infield or along the grass towards the bridge and leave it up against the armco there. However eith the damage this may have been equally difficult.

I do not fully understand why at a package that features no single seaters and where live snatching does not take place, that telehandler snatch vehicles are used. In the vast majority of cases (including this one) it would be easier, less damaging and quicker to deploy a recovery to move the vehicle to a place of relative/total safety as described above. The best they were going to achieve with the telehandler would be to put it up against the tyres in the gravel at druids, which as seen in race 3 is not ideal!

[Stephen Green]

The vehicles are used but under safety car and not doubled waved yellow flags, that is the only real difference. With the extended tarmac area at Druids (which incidentally meant there were many less stoppages over the two days) it is not possible to leave cars against the armco/tyre wall as you rightly say having seen the race 3 problems

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

I hope those casting criticism noticed that marshals from other posts came to help as did the rescue crews, we worked as a team to get the situation under control and sorted in the safest and speediest time.

Plenty of marshals on hand....

[mini1400]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

Let me clear a few things up for you.

1. The towing strap was fixed to a small bar behind the front valance and not to the main frame of the car which is why it came away so easily. The offending parts were placed in the boot of the car for the scrutineers to look at after the race. It was not the fault of the JCB driver who I can assure you is very experienced in recovering cars from the gravel.

Any report back from the scruitineers?

[Stephen Green]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Plenty of marshals on hand....

And still unable to move it. It was buried deep in the gravel

[Stephen Green]

Originally Posted by mini1400

Any report back from the scruitineers?

Not that I know of. They would have reported their findings to the Clerks and not necessarily back to the marshals post

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

And still unable to move it. It was buried deep in the gravel

Has the gravel at Druids been changed? It looked to be effective at stopping the cars but the cars that did go in there seemed to sink deeper than they used to (or I could be imagining things!). The Focus that went in there in race 1 sank quite a way in too. For what it's worth I thought the recovery operation in race 3 was pretty slick - the first recovery vehicle arrived before all the dust had settled! There was no way that lot could have been recovered without a race stop and it was always going to take time to drag that many cars out of the gravel - recovery of some couldn't even begin until others were out of the way.

[Stephen Green]

Yes, the first part of the gravel trap that was quite shallow has been replaced with additional tarmac run off which I think works really well and means less race stops. The back half of the gravel trap is, as it always was, quite deep which makes it almost impossible to move cars without using a tow vehicle of some description.

[pauln]

Originally Posted by brands

Looking at the race results on TSL the only 2 races, so far, with no exceeding track limit penalies are the 2 BTCC ones.

A quick check this morning shows that 5 second penalties were being given out in all other races bar one, with none in any of the BTCC races. I can't believe that the touring car boys were all so well-behaved in that respect. The other exception was the second Ginetta Junior Race - possibly because they tend to get the riot act read to them regularly between their races.

For those who haven't found it, details are at:

http://www.tsl-timing.com/?loc=major...eventid=121303

[nickyf1]

He did at one point say ''Austin managed to keep it rubber side down'', which sounds like a motorcycling thing.

But remember how James Allen popularised the phrase ''tankslapper'' for cars?

[westfieldbend]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

The vehicles are used but under safety car and not doubled waved yellow flags, that is the only real difference. With the extended tarmac area at Druids (which incidentally meant there were many less stoppages over the two days) it is not possible to leave cars against the armco/tyre wall as you rightly say having seen the race 3 problems

But if they are used under safety car, surely there is no point in them being used in the manor they were being used. Surely it would be much better to have them on the inside gaps at paddock and druids and then cars would be removed to a place of safety on the inside rather than against the tyres near post 4a, which is still quite exposed really. Obviously there is the added difficulty of having to find a gap for the vehicle to cross the track, but this shouldn't be too difficult with the safety car (and races without pit stops)? It used to work very well 5 or so years ago anyway.

Maybe it would be better to have the unimog on the inside of paddock as well as a telehandler on the outside? This was done a couple of years ago but didn't really work as they only had one driver for both vehicles.

I'm not sure if recovery vehicle positions are defined in the circuit license though.

[Stephen Green]

Snatch vehicle positions ARE stipulated in the circuit licence I believe.

[awrb]

Regarding the coverage, I think Toby Moody did a decent job for his first meeting. Tim said at the beginning that Toby had brought sheets with facts and topics to talk about with him and that he wouldn't need it, but I think he still did use it a bit too often. At a few points he seemed to be discussing a topic relating to the car we were watching, but without commentating on the action and just ignoring an overtaking move. While he made some interesting points, he just wasn't helping build the excitement of the race. But if he's used to commentating longer races he'll just need time to adjust. I think he's a good replacement for Ben overall, and of course Tim was fantastic!

Anyone else notice Louise throw over to "Tony" Moody once or twice?

[Tom Bee]

Yeah i agree that it would be better if recovery vehicles were available on the inside of the corners. The only problem is they have to pull the cars across the track which blocks it and this means it will also drag gravel onto the track.

[David Stallard]

Gutted I had to work on Sunday, even more so when I looked out the office window to see blue sky's and sunshine after nearly freezing to death on Saturday lol.

Still managed a 'few' shot's - feel free to take a look HERE Be warned though - they are mixed in with all the others of the day in order.

Few random shot's for you.

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.DAVID.