[BTCC] Round One, Donington Park 23-24 Apr, Races 1,2&3

[thetool]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

What do they have wrong in their championship points?

https://www.tsl-timing.com/file/?f=T...1603ptstrg.pdf

It's been amended. The previous version had a lot of extra drivers on 0 points, including Plato.

[JDMROB]

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

Seems odd to me that they’re bothering to make the cars leave the pit at the start of the session on electric power only but continuing with the bizarre hot start after the post race checks rule.

It's called virtue signalling. Same as the masks outside in the pits last year.


Not quite sure what I made of the racing today if I'm honest. We left after race 2 and watched the 3rd at home. Maybe it was the wind bit the support races didnt excite me at all, the sound of the F4s was the decision i needed to go home. Hybrid boost looks like it doesn't make much difference at all, with Morgan proving that. I expect a lot of tweeking behind the scenes from the TOCA techs. Gamble looked a pro, and i thought Patterson looked a safe pair of hands too which was good.

[CroftPilgrim]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Agreed on all counts, thought it was really rather irrelevant. To someone in the crowd you wouldn't know any different. Which is a good thing in my opinion, as it feels like we're racing without gimmicks, apart from the reverse grid bowl which I feel needs to be a set position i.e. tenth or eighth gets pole.

That's how it used to be but it was changed to stop drivers playing the system. I remember one race Plato was trying to get the car behind him to overtake him so he'd finish 10th and get pole for the reverse grid race. Of course that's what the other driver wanted too!

[mprmke]

Originally Posted by CroftPilgrim

That's how it used to be but it was changed to stop drivers playing the system. I remember one race Plato was trying to get the car behind him to overtake him so he'd finish 10th and get pole for the reverse grid race. Of course that's what the other driver wanted too!

Yes, this is a terrible system. Used to see WTCC teams with multiple drivers swapping places on purpose in every race, very blatantly. Was one of the worst things seen in motorsport. The draw is the only way to do it.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by CroftPilgrim

That's how it used to be but it was changed to stop drivers playing the system. I remember one race Plato was trying to get the car behind him to overtake him so he'd finish 10th and get pole for the reverse grid race. Of course that's what the other driver wanted too!

Thruxton 2004 he almost caused a pile up snail racing to the flag!

[Adamcas87]

I think once Sutton gets to grip with front wheel drive he’ll be hard to stop
But hill and Ingram first class this weekend

Gamble can’t remember a better start for a rookie

Thompson looked quick too good to see

[billy bleach]

Jelly prop shaft breakage, Toyotas Drive shaft breakage, electric start from pit road abandoned , what’s going on?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

Thruxton 2004 he almost caused a pile up snail racing to the flag!

I also recall the 2015 race 2 grid debacle, particularly Plato at Knockhill.

Lesson learnt is that if drivers think they can 'game' a system, they will. Currently, randomised reverse grid is the best solution they've had for mixing things up. It's not perfect, but I can't see any better options.

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I spent the whole day avoiding the results of teh F1 and BTCC only to come back and find out the BTCC has not series linked.

How long do I need to wait before ITV hub have the races available to watch?

They were adding the races to the website during the afternoon. All of them were available before the live show finished.

[Robin Marriott]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Jelly prop shaft breakage, Toyotas Drive shaft breakage, electric start from pit road abandoned , what’s going on?

We’ve seen propshaft and driveshaft breakages before, they’re nothing new.

[antnee]

The electric motor is driving the gearbox (during an electric start) so the drivers will have an element of control when starting the ICE via the clutch pedal. If you just side-step the pedal you will get a jolt through the prop/drive shafts. Feathering it in a little will reduce this impact.

Teams will just need to pay extra attention to the condition of the shafts, potentially replacing them more often.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by antnee

The electric motor is driving the gearbox (during an electric start) so the drivers will have an element of control when starting the ICE via the clutch pedal. If you just side-step the pedal you will get a jolt through the prop/drive shafts. Feathering it in a little will reduce this impact.

Teams will just need to pay extra attention to the condition of the shafts, potentially replacing them more often.

Rowbottom (I think) was demonstrating the pit-lane start procedure during the coverage. He showed that the driver has to:

Depress the clutch.
Select 1st gear.
Activate the hybrid.
Press the throttle to move along the pit-lane (keeping the clutch pedal down).
Once clear of the pit-lane, 'dump' the clutch.

Remember that the hybrid motor is attached to the gearbox - using this to start the engine will put stress through the whole drive-train. Feathering a certain amount might be possible - but effectively using the hybrid momentum as a bump start will require a certain 'violence' in the application each time.

[S griffin]

Wow, what a start to the season that was!

Hyundai already looking good for the title. Without the handicap of success ballast, it should be a lot easier for Tingram. Can he finally take that title?

The works Beemers threw away that R1 by fighting too hard early on and then Hill got that exclusion for the ride height. But what a recovery in R2 to take the reverse grid pole and then win R3. He should be a title contender. Turkington did well to recover from his stall in R2

Nice to see Flash starting the season well after the bad luck he suffered last year

The Fords really had a tough weekend starting with Cammish's fire in qualifying, it's amazing they got the car out after that. Only Sutton seemed to have a trouble free weekend, seemed to be too many reliability issues for the other cars

What a start Cicely had, especially Gamble. He has really taken to the BTCC like a duck to water, with a podium to top it off. Shame the drive thru in R3 prevented another great result. Morgan also did well considering he had no hybrid

Toyota had a tough weekend, although Butcher showed how good the car is when everything is running well. Collard never seemed to get going due to the various issues. But what was race control thinking with not putting the SC out immediately when Ricky stopped on the circuit, unless they thought he could get going again?

Cookie had another good weekend for BTC Racing, he should be up there again. Plato's puncture in R1 ruined his weekend

The HARD Cupras did well in the hands of the returning Bobby Thompson and ATS. Looks like they won't miss Goff

The two teams that didn't do anything were Laser Tools, who are obviously missing Ash and PMR, who have also fallen quite a way down after a good season last year

All in all a great start to the season and I look forward to Brands

[CroftPilgrim]

Originally Posted by Adamcas87

I think once Sutton gets to grip with front wheel drive he’ll be hard to stop.

Yes but I don't think it's a given that he can get it working like the Infiniti. So it will be interesting to watch. I think his biggest headache may be reliability. He was the only focus to apparently have a trouble free weekend in that respect.

This weekend was a bit of a leveller and I hope future weekends continue in the same vein

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by sceptic

They were adding the races to the website during the afternoon. All of them were available before the live show finished.

Thanks, I completely forgot the itv touring cars website. So are they never uploaded to ITV Hub?

[geordiecriag101]

That was a cracking start to the new season, a fairly clean day by BTCC standards with lots of super close and hard but fair racing from all the categories during the day. Hill just looks stunning in the BMW, he could put it any were he wanted on track and it worked.

More of the same for rest of the season please!

Heres my trackside vid if anyone interested:

https://youtu.be/xRXz1JFpogk

[antnee]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Rowbottom (I think) was demonstrating the pit-lane start procedure during the coverage. He showed that the driver has to:

Depress the clutch.
Select 1st gear.
Activate the hybrid.
Press the throttle to move along the pit-lane (keeping the clutch pedal down).
Once clear of the pit-lane, 'dump' the clutch.

Remember that the hybrid motor is attached to the gearbox - using this to start the engine will put stress through the whole drive-train. Feathering a certain amount might be possible - but effectively using the hybrid momentum as a bump start will require a certain 'violence' in the application each time.

This is the same method many road-going hybrids use (but all automated).

[rdjones]

I caught all three races yesterday and it look we are off to a good start. EXCELR8 have done a really good job with the Hyundai.

But the pecking order is pretty much what you would expect to see. I think we will be in for a good year and be interesting to see how things playout with the Hybrids deployment as the season as TOCA are bound to to move the goal post.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

We’ve seen propshaft and driveshaft breakages before, they’re nothing new.

At the first event when one would guess everything is new?

[billy bleach]

Teams will just need to pay extra attention to the condition of the shafts, potentially replacing them more often.[/QUOTE]

Wow bet teams are happy about that I can only guess what they cost!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Wow bet teams are happy about that I can only guess what they cost!

The target price is:
TOCA Driveshaft price £954.35 each
TOCA Cross shaft price £1,195.00 each

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

At the first event when one would guess everything is new?

so lets just pretend that the 4 cars you mention had all their failures only because of hybrid and forget any other possible factors

that means with 84 cars racing on the day (28 cars x 3 races) less than one half of one percent (0.04%) had hybrid related failures

not exactly a huge number is it

[antnee]

What is actually breaking on the shafts? The UJ/CV joints or the shafts themselves?


A good friend was having loads of issues with CVs going on his rally car, found an alternative supplier who was initially more expensive but the parts lasted much longer - so over a season worked out better off.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

that means with 84 cars racing on the day (28 cars x 3 races) less than one half of one percent (0.04%) had hybrid related failures

4 from 84 is 5%

If that is all a result of hybrid related issues, it is a significant percentage.

[Sodemo]

What was the issue with the M-Sport engine? Plato alluded to some issues?