ALMS Round 4: Lime Rock

[Beetle]

Originally Posted by wheelz22

Yeah, it's uncanny, that place. The hottest I've ever been anywhere on the planet was LRP in 2010. The medics were handing out IV's on race day like candy...in hindsight I should have gotten one too after the checkered...but one didn't want to appear weak in front of one's crew mates....flawed thinking as it were. Maybe the LRP round should be moved to January.

Yes, it's undoubtedly very hot. But the ALMS race in Austin in September will be just as bad, trust me. :/

Hottest place I've ever been is the Dallas North Tollway in late August - 114 degrees and about 80% humidity.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by wheelz22

Yeah, it's uncanny, that place. The hottest I've ever been anywhere on the planet was LRP in 2010. The medics were handing out IV's on race day like candy...in hindsight I should have gotten one too after the checkered...but one didn't want to appear weak in front of one's crew mates....flawed thinking as it were. Maybe the LRP round should be moved to January.

We had a drift event up there in March and it was about thirty degrees out...maybe an April date would work better!

We've got another this Saturday up there, that should be fun.

[wheelz22]

Originally Posted by Beetle

Yes, it's undoubtedly very hot. But the ALMS race in Austin in September will be just as bad, trust me. :/

Hottest place I've ever been is the Dallas North Tollway in late August - 114 degrees and about 80% humidity.

Oh crap...that's right....I forgot about the COTA round...that's gonna be miserable.....I feel the flu coming on.

[wheelz22]

Originally Posted by Matt

We had a drift event up there in March and it was about thirty degrees out...maybe an April date would work better!

We've got another this Saturday up there, that should be fun.

Yeah Matt......April would be beautiful up there....both for machinery and the people that work on and drive them......not to mention the fans who suffer as well.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by wheelz22

Yeah Matt......April would be beautiful up there....both for machinery and the people that work on and drive them......not to mention the fans who suffer as well.

Either April or the end of September, the place is absolutely gorgeous when the leaves are changing all around the track.

I'd actually prefer September, as I've got wicked spring pollen allergies.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

In the GTC cars we're at the top of 5th gear entering turn 1.. around 151-152MPH. Based on the GT cars passing me during the weekend, they're the same.. a few maybe +1-3mph.. and some (BMW's) slower than us.

-mike

Does that mean you never get into 6th at Lime Rock?

[wheelz22]

Originally Posted by Matt

Either April or the end of September, the place is absolutely gorgeous when the leaves are changing all around the track.

I'd actually prefer September, as I've got wicked spring pollen allergies.

Very true.....New England is the leaf-change paradise of the US...late Sep would indeed be spectacular (and temperate).

[jasonjessica09]

When you get to the street circuits the GTLM cars seem to be on pace with the P2/PC cars just about. Especially Balitmore. John Edwards you guys should target OVERALL victory when you get to that race later in the year. Or at least top overall non P1 car.

So I guess the main thing that makes the LMPC cars faster than the GT cars is the straightaway speed then? I suppose LMPC has those extra 10 mm resctrictor reduced right now to help them get more pop on the straights?

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

Does that mean you never get into 6th at Lime Rock?

Correct. T1-T4 is all 3rd gear. T5 (chicane) is 2nd. T6-7 is 4th gear.

Here's some in-car from Friday's practice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-csOZXAqOQ

-mike

[Fogelhund]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=qtoGfMsiiFQ

In car of the Cosmo/Briscoe incident. I can't believe Briscoe kept the win after this.

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=qtoGfMsiiFQ

In car of the Cosmo/Briscoe incident. I can't believe Briscoe kept the win after this.

According to Elkins, it is in no way similar to the "Vette" dumping the "BMW" at Mid-Ohio at the end of the Grand-Am race. (quotes for tubeframes)

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by BullMan

According to Elkins, we as fans can't understand why they did that, and it is in no way similar to the "Vette" dumping the "BMW" at Mid-Ohio at the end of the Grand-Am race. (quotes for tubeframes)

He is right, we can't understand why they did that.

Where did he make such a moronic comment?

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

He is right, we can't understand why they did that.

Where did he make such a moronic comment?

I may have imagined the first part and I think I was wrong about that, so my apologies. I may have it confused with someone else asking him a question. But this is what he said about the similarities to the GA incident:

Elkins: Incorrect “(Other guy's tweet to Elkins) incident was similar to corvette spinning the BMW this year in G/A. Post race 60 sec penalty & loss of win”

And something about the lack of a post-race results change:

It's not only about that josh-other issues at play as well “@joshvc:, we can handle a post-race position change.”

[Fogelhund]

Fair enough, thanks for the clarification. It was the wrong call though, and you can't set such a precedent. Terrible.

Heck of a message to send out. We'll give you basically the points you were going to get anyway, but if you punt out the guy ahead of you, you can take and keep the glory of the win for you and your sponsors. Awesome.

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Fair enough, thanks for the clarification. It was the wrong call though, and you can't set such a precedent. Terrible.

Heck of a message to send out. We'll give you basically the points you were going to get anyway, but if you punt out the guy ahead of you, you can take and keep the glory of the win for you and your sponsors. Awesome.

Mike Hedlund is talking about it right now on Twitter.

Mike Hedlund ‏@mike_hedlund 16m
Maybe I missed it @scotelkins, but what was the reason for allowing L5 to keep the P2 win at Limerock?
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More

Scot Elkins ‏@scotelkins 8m
Bulletin 13-07 I.e. the rules @mike_hedlund:, but what was the reason for allowing L5 to keep the P2 win at Limerock?”
Expand

Mike Hedlund ‏@mike_hedlund 56s
@scotelkins we don't do the rite thing because it's covered live on tv? that's just about the dumbest damn thing i've ever seen.#embarrassed

Found 13-07
http://www.imsaracing.net/2013/alms/...IN%2013-07.pdf

In order to retain the podium finishing order of the cars as televised and experienced by the spectators of an
Event, the finishing order of such cars that are subject to imposition of a post-Race penalty shall remain as
the cars crossed the Finish Line. The finishing order of cars in fourth place or lower shall be adjusted as
required to implement any penalty imposed and the points and awards adjusted accordingly.
6.21.3
Cars receiving a penalty applied post-race that would impact the finishing position order shall result in all
other cars elevated in the finishing order and the points and awards order. Cars finishing in the top three
positions in class (or overall, if an Event is so scored), shall retain their Race finishing position in the
published results order regardless of penalty applied. Example: A class-winning car penalized one lap postrace for an on-track incident shall have their points and awards adjusted commensurately and all other
competitors advanced as applicable in the awards but shall remain listed as the first place finisher.

[Fogelhund]

Mike, I like the way you think. This whole thing is embarrassing.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by BullMan

Mike Hedlund is talking about it right now on Twitter.


Found 13-07
http://www.imsaracing.net/2013/alms/...IN%2013-07.pdf

Good find. LOLOL

Its clearly all a conspiracy

Tucker has Elkins in his back pocket.

All jokes here.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by BullMan

Mike Hedlund is talking about it right now on Twitter.



Found 13-07
http://www.imsaracing.net/2013/alms/...IN%2013-07.pdf

That's not news though. Same thing happened when Falken failed the stall test at Laguna.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

That's not news though. Same thing happened when Falken failed the stall test at Laguna.

The differences being that Falken finished second, and a day after the race there is no real value in finishing second beyond the points anyway.

While the technical infraction deserves penalty, it isn't as unsporting as turfing someone off the track, in order to get a win.
People aren't going to get up in arms about a second place finish, because nobody really cares, and the fashion of it is such that it isn't a big deal. Either way, Falken shouldn't have been rewarded second, and L5 shouldn't have kept the win. That is why results used to be provisional. You cheat, or are accidentally outside of the rules, you shouldn't keep your spot. Stupid rule, fix it.

[chernaudi]

"In order to retain the podium finishing order of the cars as televised and experienced by the spectators of an
Event, the finishing order of such cars that are subject to imposition of a post-Race penalty shall remain as
the cars crossed the Finish Line. The finishing order of cars in fourth place or lower shall be adjusted as
required to implement any penalty imposed and the points and awards adjusted accordingly.
6.21.3
Cars receiving a penalty applied post-race that would impact the finishing position order shall result in all
other cars elevated in the finishing order and the points and awards order. Cars finishing in the top three
positions in class (or overall, if an Event is so scored), shall retain their Race finishing position in the
published results order regardless of penalty applied. Example: A class-winning car penalized one lap postrace for an on-track incident shall have their points and awards adjusted commensurately and all other
competitors advanced as applicable in the awards but shall remain listed as the first place finisher"

Grand Am has been doing this for years, and NASCAR has done this forever, too.

NASCAR has gotten to Walker and Elkins for sure now...

Between USCR/IMSA delaying releasing the technical regs for '14 as far as delivering them on time and this, they're starting to make the FIA and the ACO seem sane, which has been pretty hard to do at times. And with the armco issues at LM this year and the BOP done going into LM this year, that was hard to do this year, too. USCR's screwing the pooch here. I'm holding out hope for better, but I'm not holding my breath, either...

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

The differences being that Falken finished second, and a day after the race there is no real value in finishing second beyond the points anyway.

I agree, but the reason for doing it was the same rule, and it was wrong then too.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

I agree, but the reason for doing it was the same rule, and it was wrong then too.

I should have clarified, I agree it was just as wrong, but there wasn't much of a outcry about it, as it was for second and the incident wasn't as obvious.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Mike, I like the way you think. This whole thing is embarrassing.

+1 And it's not the first 'surprising' decision in favour of L5...

[FalkenALMS]

Unfortunately, the rule that let us keep our second place finish at Laguna is the same rule that let L5 keep their win at LRP. Both of us were stripped of our points and prize money.

In our case, there was no foul play. Our car DID stall in post-race tech, just not as fast as the officials preferred. We can't say too much about what happened, but know that the team still fought hard and clean to stay at the font and earned that second place finish and there was no foul play involved. It was not a case like Lime Rock when those penalized made a questionable sportsmanship move to take out a competitor.

As for the rule change, from a PR perspective, post-race penalties are a nightmare, especially when the TV broadcast is done and every media outlet worldwide has already posted the results. To re-release new results creates a mess. Not to mention all podium pictures are rendered useless, media lose out on money because they can't sell the photos, the podiums can't be re-shot and no interviews can be redone once the event is over. Not saying that's why the rule was made, just offering another view of the mess it creates. It may seem like a small task to others, but believe me, it's a nightmare.

[Brownj]

Originally Posted by FalkenALMS

Unfortunately, the rule that let us keep our second place finish at Laguna is the same rule that let L5 keep their win at LRP. Both of us were stripped of our points and prize money.

In our case, there was no foul play. Our car DID stall in post-race tech, just not as fast as the officials preferred. We can't say too much about what happened, but know that the team still fought hard and clean to stay at the font and earned that second place finish and there was no foul play involved. It was not a case like Lime Rock when those penalized made a questionable sportsmanship move to take out a competitor.

As for the rule change, from a PR perspective, post-race penalties are a nightmare, especially when the TV broadcast is done and every media outlet worldwide has already posted the results. To re-release new results creates a mess. Not to mention all podium pictures are rendered useless, media lose out on money because they can't sell the photos, the podiums can't be re-shot and no interviews can be redone once the event is over. Not saying that's why the rule was made, just offering another view of the mess it creates. It may seem like a small task to others, but believe me, it's a nightmare.

I definitely see your point there.

Taking a competitor out vs. post-race tech failure.... I think the two should be handled separately in the future. In the case of someone gaining an advantage from avoidable contact, I don't see why there isn't enough time to administer a penalty and adjust the results before the podium happens. Seems to me like they could have taken an extra 5 or 10 minutes in race control and processed this through and made the announcement before the podium ceremony. In this particular incident, the pit reporter even prefaced the interview with Briscoe that "there may be a penalty coming", so that would cover the TV portion of it.