uk f1 tv coverage - sky, bbc and ch4

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Agree on both points. I was tired to the promo for capabilities I don't have (US viewers get the Sky feed).

Richard

Welcome to what the rest of the world has to put up with when watching US sports.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Welcome to what the rest of the world has to put up with when watching US sports.

There is always the NFL option - where the BBC will provide analysis in lieu of marketing. It does mean there is more airtime of the studio than the match.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Welcome to what the rest of the world has to put up with when watching US sports.

Fair point.

But I think at this point, I would rather just watch the world feed without any audio or region specific advertisements.

Richard

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

...And I was amazed at the times they cut away from the action to show crowd reaction. I get the crowd might be enjoying the race they are watching. I also would like the watch the race, so please show it to me...

i never like to disagree with you Richard but after a couple of years with mainly no fans/large crowds in attendance, i have really enjoyed seeing these crowds at the last few races. it adds a whole other level that i myself have been missing.

actually found myself laughing a few times at the drivers reactions in the media/question area as it was so close to a very raucous crowd.

i suspect that once we get to the Middle East though they wont bother showing the relatively reserved and sparse crowds and/or covered grandstands.

although im hoping the traveling Dutch contingent proves me wrong on this one though!



to each their own of course when it comes to broadcasting styles. its a very hard thing to get right

[Richard C]

I wonder how much larger the US viewership needs to grow to trigger a reversion back to what we previously had. Which was world feed plus US color commentary and pit team.

I think US viewership is in the 900K range now. And I think Sky UK viewership is in the 1.5-2M range? And I don't think the US viewership counts in the Sky numbers? My point is that it would not take much growth for US viewership numbers to be in the ballpark of Sky UK numbers.

I tend to like most of the Sky team such as Chandhok and Herbert. Not a fan of Croft and the shouting at all. But complaints about the inordinate shouting is just beating a dead horse.

Richard

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Welcome to what the rest of the world has to put up with when watching US sports.

to each their own of course but i think the US standard is heads and tails better then everyone else both in terms of coverage, access, and commentary styles.

imo, SKY has learned well imo.

but then again i dont get the shouting comments either...dude is still no where near as (faked) excited as whoever commentates those darts tournament.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i never like to disagree with you Richard but after a couple of years with mainly no fans/large crowds in attendance, i have really enjoyed seeing these crowds at the last few races. it adds a whole other level that i myself have been missing.

It's the timing of when they show it is the problem. I have no problem with showing crowds and also enjoy seeing them as well.

I noticed this past weekend multiple times in which active action was happening on track (such as two car battle corner to corner) right that minute and they will briefly cut away from the action to show the crowds and then back to the action. What did I miss on track? I have no way of knowing. Just show the action, then once the cars are not actively battling, show the crowds. They can and do so replays of cars, so they can also show replay of crowd reaction. They have done this in the past as well. And it worked well.

I generally think TV direction is good. I just agreed that it wasn't particularly good this past weekend. My guess is that while they have a core team that does all of the world feed work, they probably rotate direction responsibilities inside the FOM TV production team. And that is not a bad thing as you need to have more than one person who can do it. But sometimes the direction is good, sometimes it is not. It can clearly be inconsistent from race to race at times from a "style" perspective.

Richard

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I wonder how much larger the US viewership needs to grow to trigger a reversion back to what we previously had. Which was world feed plus US color commentary and pit team.

I think US viewership is in the 900K range now. And I think Sky UK viewership is in the 1.5-2M range? And I don't think the US viewership counts in the Sky numbers? My point is that it would not take much growth for US viewership numbers to be in the ballpark of Sky UK numbers.

I tend to like most of the Sky team such as Chandhok and Herbert. Not a fan of Croft and the shouting at all. But complaints about the inordinate shouting is just beating a dead horse.

Richard

for me, all time favorite crew is still that team led by Varsha over on Speed Channel. those were good days for me. picture quality was better as they carried the races with the wide screen aspect ratio while what i got from BBC/ITV in those days was still 4:3.

i would think the bigger problem is the price tag for the broadcast right as i dont think viewership was ll that high back in those Speed days either (being a specialty channel and all)?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

...But sometimes the direction is good, sometimes it is not. It can clearly be inconsistent from race to race at times from a "style" perspective.

for sure that s fair.

the director must have good instincts and anticipate so a cut away doesnt happen too soon or too late.

they were probably thrown for a bit of a loop when they realized it was actually a great race!

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

for me, all time favorite crew is still that team led by Varsha over on Speed Channel. those were good days for me. picture quality was better as they carried the races with the wide screen aspect ratio while what i got from BBC/ITV in those days was still 4:3.

i would think the bigger problem is the price tag for the broadcast right as i dont think viewership was ll that high back in those Speed days either (being a specialty channel and all)?

Bob Varsha, Steve Matchett and David Hobbs in the booth with Will Buxton in the pit. That is my favorite and personally most nostalgic grouping for US broadcast.

Varsha has been battling cancer, but he has said he is ready to return to the broadcast booth. He was cut from the NBC group due to contract issues. Hobbs is a character for sure, but I enjoyed him. Matchett was their technical guy. No doubt the gang could be put back together again. I expect all are just waiting for a phone call (maybe not Buxton?).

(starting rant)

I suspect that prior to purchase by Liberty the US market was mostly an afterthought and probably was given a sweet deal with respect to the cost of broadcast rights. But the more and more broadcast rights were looked at as a money maker, the fee would surely have been increasing each time the contract was up for renewal. So US broadcasters didn't see the value in both paying for a more and more expensive world feed PLUS having US staff to do commentary. So now we just get the Sky broadcast (which has it's benefits as they are showing it without breaks) which is not ideal for US market.

Overall, I think F1 screwed itself with respect to growing the US market. Motorsports that have their roots outside of the US had what I think are two big boosts to help grow the US market. Probably a decade or more ago, there was a generation who played rally games on Playstations, etc. and had access to WRC broadcasts in the US. It helped that it was also a great time to be watching WRC. That sort of went away. Again, I think due to broadcast rights, plus a shrinking of WRC (which I really haven't following in at least a decade now). This drove the creation of a generation of Subaru and Mitsubishi fans here in the US as they could buy WRX and Evos if they wanted (and did).

The second is the Netflix series "Drive to Survive" which has been a recent godsend to the F1 with respect to growing the US market. That is helping us recover from the dark ages of F1 "I sure hope F1 is on TV next season" here in the US. This concern would have been prior to the advent of serious on-demand solutions via online streaming services. F1 tried really hard to kill it's US audience.

In both cases, my argument is that easy to access "mainstream" broadcasts as well as other mediums (popular games) helped grow the fanbase. While Netflix is a pay service, most people have it. It is when you put the content somewhere that people have to go out of their way to get (such as paywall just for that content alone), that you have problems growing your fanbase. They need to keep the ball rolling with the increased US interest and work to create a more US centric broadcast for the races themselves.

(end of rant)

Sorry for the rant.

Richard

[chillibowl]

all good. i like rants!

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Varsha has been battling cancer, but he has said he is ready to return to the broadcast booth...

****ing cancer!

i did not know that. glad to hear is ready to return to broadcasting though.

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I suspect that prior to purchase by Liberty the US market was mostly an afterthought and probably was given a sweet deal with respect to the cost of broadcast rights...

Sean Bratches, who became director of commercial rights or some such when Liberty took over, came from ESPN and i want to say that when at ESPN he was one of the main proponents of digitizing content, creating paywalls etc.

my impression was when Liberty came in they thought there was a huge opportunity to grow this space for F1, particularly in the US market, but then reality set in and Bratches and Carey kind of moved on.

of course they did do some good things. maybe a lot of good things even so theirs is a story i would like to know more about.

but its unlike the story FOM want to tell now... obviously i have a different view/theory on Drive to Survive.

i dont think the audience it attracts will, in large numbers anyways, become regular watchers of F1. i think they binge watch a show over a weekend and then move on to the next overly dramatized desperate housewives style reality show.

for all intents and purposes for Netflix, F1 is just a very fancy backdrop/set for an industry and audience desperate for more and more content.

but that said, dont really need or want a lot of that group to become regulars F1 watchers right?

too many and the sport has to become about these new fans...if its a small number, then hopefully, that small new group will be ok settling in at the speed of us existing and current fans?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

for all intents and purposes for Netflix, F1 is just a very fancy backdrop/set for an industry and audience desperate for more and more content.

but that said, dont really need or want a lot of that group to become regulars F1 watchers right?

too many and the sport has to become about these new fans...if its a small number, then hopefully, that small new group will be ok settling in at the speed of us existing and current fans?

So regarding "Drive to Survive" and F1 is just the backdrop for character drama. I think that hits the nail on the head. It reminds me a bit of American professional "wrestling" (WWE style) in which it's really not about the wrestling, but about the character drama. Who is the bad guy, who is the good guy, etc.

Frankly. About 90% of what we discuss here is the drama in F1 (Lewis vs. Max; Toto vs. Christian; who is the bad guy, who is the good guy; Its all about the personalities). So those new fans might be in good company.

In all seriousness. Hopefully the Netflix crowd comes for the drama


but stays for the racing.


I enjoy both.

Richard

[billy bleach]

Does anybody give a T*ss about how many Canadians the Radio 5 "commentary " know?.....

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Does anybody give a T*ss about how many Canadians the Radio 5 "commentary " know?.....

Woah - they've been criticised for being too UK-centric. Now their discussing Canadians too.

[john ruston]

US TV and ownership involvement usually screw up sports they are involved in.
F1 will be no different . They try to impose their franchise concept on football and that’s failed . Remember years ago I had a colleague who owned a chunk
Of a NASCAR team and they won a couple of races including an early Indy race. France directed there could be a weight penalty unless they made show more interesting.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by john ruston

US TV and ownership involvement usually screw up sports they are involved in.
F1 will be no different . They try to impose their franchise concept on football and that’s failed . Remember years ago I had a colleague who owned a chunk
Of a NASCAR team and they won a couple of races including an early Indy race. France directed there could be a weight penalty unless they made show more interesting.

When you say ''They try to impose their franchise concept on football and that’s failed'', is that football as in the Premier League, or football as in the NFL?

[john ruston]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

When you say ''They try to impose their franchise concept on football and that’s failed'', is that football as in the Premier League, or football as in the NFL?

Football as Premier League and Chuckball as in NFL.
NFL is an unusual concept in that all make money irrespective of performance.
A socialist concept enriching mostly capitalist conservatives.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by john ruston

NFL is an unusual concept in that all make money irrespective of performance.

Sounds like a success to me? You leave out the fact that it is entertaining and the competition is real.

Originally Posted by john ruston

A socialist concept enriching mostly capitalist conservatives.

Ironic, but also not unusual?

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Football as Premier League and Chuckball as in NFL.
NFL is an unusual concept in that all make money irrespective of performance.
A socialist concept enriching mostly capitalist conservatives.

Has US TV and ownership tried to impose their franchise concept on football as in the Premier League? If they have, I see no resemblance.

I can only echo Richard Cato when he says; ''Sounds like a success to me?''

[Adam43]

OT: There are many things you can criticize about the NFL, but it is a financially sustainable model and produces a competition that has a high level of parity across the teams. Which is what many fans assert that F1 needs.

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Does anybody give a T*ss about how many Canadians the Radio 5 "commentary " know?.....

Can someone from Canada please apologise for this?

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Can someone from Canada please apologise for this?

We should apologise to Canadians if they have to take the banal BBC feed there! So much going on in F1 - so little mentioned in an adult way on Radio 5. I can only conclude F1 don’t give the Radio 5 rabble any worthwhile access….

[john ruston]

Suppose it’s the interpretation of people’s thought when they discuss sports.
Is it sport where you race and compete against each other and may best win or is it a mix of entertainment and sport where everything needs to be equal and things are made to one level.
Does sport need to be entertainment?
F1 seems to have survived pretty well over the past seventy years so why change something that’s not broke?
Historically there should always be a British,German,Italian ,French and Monaco GP’s followed by the next level Canada,US,Japan,Hungary ,Australia then the rest.
Why four/five races in Middle East beats me or will we get Dubai added in next years.
The days of 250 k people at the Ring have long vanished.In Bahrain a few years ago and they bussed kids in to fill the huge gaps in stands before the race.
Change is not always good and whilst I am on a roll can’t understand how NFL is considered a sport rather than a gladiatorial entertainment ,much same as WWF.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Change is not always good and whilst I am on a roll can’t understand how NFL is considered a sport rather than a gladiatorial entertainment ,much same as WWF.

What's a wildlife charity got to do with sport?

[john ruston]

Obviously confused that Sir Peter Scott and DOE were wrestlers!