Jos Verstappen furious!!

steve nielsen · 10 Jun 2001, 19:16 (Ref:103455)

Jos Verstappen was furious after retiring with brake problems(no front brakes anymore):"they know the problem, but they still did'nt do anything about it, they should listen to me more, now we threw away 2 or 3 points". and Yes!!, he could have been fourth, because not only was there a break problem: the radio also did'nt work, so when Jos came in the safetycar also let the field go again, he was ahead of Alesi and Raikkonen there and that cost him 20 seconds(he was 12 seconds behind Alesi at the time of the crash).
Jos also said that maybe Tom Walkinshaw should have a good "talk"(ok maybe some swearing) with the engineers........

so close, yet so far away.......

Jos drove a great race, but if Arrows doesn't improve Tom is going to lose a driver that will be hard to replace.......

**bella** · 10 Jun 2001, 19:24 (Ref:103468)

he still doesn't warrant the nickname of the boss...

but surely mr verstappen should have noticed his brake pedal was decidedly squishy and done something about it?

steve nielsen · 10 Jun 2001, 19:26 (Ref:103472)

Well, de la Rosa was too close behind him: it was do or die.....

**bella** · 10 Jun 2001, 19:28 (Ref:103475)

i don't understand what he was complaining about. the team can't do much about it except tell him he was right, and his pedal was long.

steve nielsen · 10 Jun 2001, 19:31 (Ref:103478)

This was'nt a problem that suddenly occured this race, it was a problem at al the circuits where you must break hard, and Jos already said that months ago......

R · 10 Jun 2001, 19:32 (Ref:103479)

I'm not so sure about the "hard to replace" bit, there are probably plenty of drivers who would want that seat, even if it is at Arrows...

If it was do or die, then it was still his decision. I'm sure the mechanics do the best they can, and this sort of internal disputes is never good for a team. If Jos has a problem with them, he should raise the issue inside the team, and not go public about it. Or else Jos may be the one losing a seat he may find hard to regain elsewhere...

Piquet · 10 Jun 2001, 19:32 (Ref:103480)

Quote:

Originally posted by bella
surely mr verstappen should have noticed his brake pedal was decidedly squishy and done something about it?

what do you suggest he should have done bella?

senna12 · 10 Jun 2001, 19:36 (Ref:103483)

Perhaps Arrows should switch to the brakes used by Williams, which are different than the other teams. They didn't seem to be giving off great volumes of carbon fibre dust, like the others were. Maybe Jos feels the team should have known Canada was notoriously hard on brakes, and put bigger or harder discs on, or something like that.

steve nielsen · 10 Jun 2001, 19:37 (Ref:103486)

Sure R: there are a lot of drivers out there: BUT can they put that Arrows 13th on the grid??, can they be 7th after a few laps??, I don't think that any drivers capable of doint that would be interested in that seat.....

Don K · 10 Jun 2001, 19:43 (Ref:103491)

I guess he was just very lucky again to go from 13 to 8 in the first lap.

And when he said yesterday that starting from 13th was just like starting in the top-10, well, I guess that's pure arrogance, because nobody can be that good when it comes to starting.

R · 10 Jun 2001, 19:47 (Ref:103495)

I'm not saying Jos Verstappen is not a good driver, but remember Bernoldi has outqualified him on several occasions this year. And in Monaco, Jos was behind Bernoldi but was let through because of team orders.

Moving from 13th to 7th may also have something to do with having a light fuel load.

Don K · 10 Jun 2001, 19:48 (Ref:103497)

Quote:

Originally posted by steve nielsen
Sure R: there are a lot of drivers out there: BUT can they put that Arrows 13th on the grid??, can they be 7th after a few laps??, I don't think that any drivers capable of doint that would be interested in that seat.....

I think Jos is capable of doing that.
And I think Jos is interested in (keeping) that seat.

steve nielsen · 10 Jun 2001, 19:48 (Ref:103498)

Well Don: you haven'nt been paying much attention to the races this season haven'nt you??, if nobody can start that good why does Jos do it almost every race??

**bella** · 10 Jun 2001, 19:50 (Ref:103499)

Quote:

Originally posted by Piquet

what do you suggest he should have done bella?

beats me, i don't race the things. perchance it would have been easier to let de la rosa by and ease off a bit? surely a finish is better than a big heap of carbon fibre?

Don K · 10 Jun 2001, 19:56 (Ref:103503)

Quote:

Originally posted by R
I'm not saying Jos Verstappen is not a good driver, but remember Bernoldi has outqualified him on several occasions this year. And in Monaco, Jos was behind Bernoldi but was let through because of team orders.

Moving from 13th to 7th may also have something to do with having a light fuel load.

I think every teammate except Rosset (Schumacher, Barrichello, Salo, De la Rosa) has outquallified Jos in more than half of the races. But during the race, Jos is clearly better than Bertoldi (Salo and De La Rosa were more or less equal to him, Mika beating Jos and Jos beating Pedro).
I do think Jos is a good driver, but he clearly is not a good quallifier.

And Jos is not only starting good when he has a light fuel load.

Don K · 10 Jun 2001, 19:59 (Ref:103505)

Quote:

Originally posted by bella

beats me, i don't race the things. perchance it would have been easier to let de la rosa by and ease off a bit? surely a finish is better than a big heap of carbon fibre?

But if you had to choose between a finish at 7th or 8th position,
and a chance to keep your 6th position (and a championshippoint),
what would you choose?

Don K.

Don K · 10 Jun 2001, 20:01 (Ref:103506)

Quote:

Originally posted by steve nielsen
Well Don: you haven'nt been paying much attention to the races this season haven'nt you??, if nobody can start that good why does Jos do it almost every race??

As far as I know, he did the same thing a couple of times last year.

Quino · 10 Jun 2001, 20:45 (Ref:103534)

Sure he starts on a light fuelload. Thats the team racetactic, making the most of a small fueltank. Too bad it only works on the first stint. On the second and third Jos couldn't even make up ground to the driver in front. And that we have seen many times more. Jos excellent starts are essential to make the most of this strategy, and I must say, he is good at it.

I think most of his anger comes from the mishap in planning the first stop. Although the SC was a bonus for the team in dealing with their strategy and they probably were handicaped with their 2 stops anyway, I can imagine a driver is p.issed off about it. The braking issue is just racing. Jos is extremely hard on his brakes so he should know what he is doing. Also he can hardly blame a financially challenged team (which they still are) for not jumping on any technical suggestion a driver makes. He suggested a carbon wheelbaring, but that simply wasn't doing any good.

Jos needs to realize it is all a teameffort. He has no business fuming off at any teammember. He is simply part of the same team, dealing with the same problems. I don't think any member of the team is to blame for a busted radio or an exploding racedisc. When he needs to cooloff, he can dive into the motorhome and adress the problem later during some kind of briefing.

Besides, it's not a good thing to express your anger in public. Other teams will pick up on it and nobody needs a driver who complains in public. Besides, given Jos' experience and initial talent, he is performing as he should. I don;t think he is raising any eyebrows or opening any eyes. All the interesting teams have drivers who easily as competent as Jos is.

Mekola · 10 Jun 2001, 20:51 (Ref:103544)

Also Enrique Scalabroni was dissapointed with Jos' abandon, but he know it was a brake problem. He rescued the performance of Asiatech engines, which performed well on the Canadian GP, and didn't broke any. Both Arrows left the race (but Jos qualified 10th) but not by engine problems.

Valve Bounce · 11 Jun 2001, 00:43 (Ref:103641)

I honestly think that Walkinshaw should concentrate less on TV publicity and more on finishing higher in the race. OK, so it has both Martin and Murray bamboozled in the first stint that Jos is doing so well. I just look down the order to see who will pass when he pits for the first of two stops, and that is the end of the free publicity. This was happenenig all season, and unless Arrows gets theier car sorted out, then all they will get is early publicity in every race.

**bella** · 11 Jun 2001, 12:00 (Ref:103865)

Quote:

Originally posted by Don K
But if you had to choose between a finish at 7th or 8th position,
and a chance to keep your 6th position (and a championshippoint),
what would you choose?

the race finish. he could tell how badly his brakes were going down the pan, and should have thought, now wait a minute, how much do i want to risk my own life and those of other people.
ricardo zonta had the same problem, and did the smart thing - put his brake balance right to the rear, and stepped very carefully. so he was a lap down? he still finished.

steve nielsen · 11 Jun 2001, 12:23 (Ref:103876)

You are missing the point here Bella, the idea is to score points, Jos does'nt drive just to finish, he wants points.....

And the real point here: If Arrows would have done something about those brakes earlier, and called Jos to the pits earlier he would be able to score a 4th place: 3 points!
He was also stil thinking about last race where the team knew there was a fuel pressure problem, but failed to say that to Jos, so when he pitted it cost a lot of time to restart the engine......

Tom must do something about these things, or Arrows will be at the back of the pack.........

Kalevi · 11 Jun 2001, 12:40 (Ref:103887)

Quote:

Originally posted by steve nielsen
Jos Verstappen was furious after retiring with brake problems(no front brakes anymore):"they know the problem, but they still did'nt do anything about it, they should listen to me more, now we threw away 2 or 3 points"....

Interesting thing is that in Canada Arrows we're using the first time very similar looking (on the outside, that is) break system as Ferrari have been using this season. Perhaps their spy wasn't good enough....

Another team who used similar looking break system was Jordan. This weekend was also the first time ferrari mechanics didn't bother to cover up their breaks anymore.

**bella** · 11 Jun 2001, 13:10 (Ref:103903)

Quote:

Originally posted by steve nielsen
You are missing the point here Bella, the idea is to score points, Jos does'nt drive just to finish, he wants points.....

i think we're both missing each other's points. if it were someone like tgf in jos' position, then he would have done something to finish.
and i bet the team just loved taking that mess he made apart...

steve nielsen · 11 Jun 2001, 13:54 (Ref:103923)

I think Michael would have gone for the points I think, that's what every F1 driver wants.......

And it's the teams own fault that Jos crashed, and BTW: Tom Walkinshaw is behind Jos 100%....

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