[LM24] Lamborghini considering Le Mans options

[Deleted]

Me thinks separate thread would be the best for these big rumor/evaluation/consideration/hype news we get for big manufacturers wanting presence in Le Mans. So as we already discussed this a bit on Sportscar rumors thread, Lambo is keeping the dream alive of Le Mans presence

Lamborghini Targeting Return to Le Mans, Evaluating LMP1 Effort

- "Looking at" LMP1 (likely needs Audi out first)
- Engine deal for LMP2 possible for next year

[Simmi]

Good idea Chiana.

A P2 partnership would be great to kick things off. That would show intent and get Lambo's foot in the door. Whether it happens or not let's see.

As others have said having Porsche, Audi and Lamborghini all in P1 seems unthinkable.

[TF110]

The article says up to 2018 for their racing program and budget. Thats 3(ish) years from now. If lmp1 is their target, then they need to get moving. If they are talking after 2018, that gives Audi or Porsche the chance to finish lmp1 (if they have issue running in conjunction). Crazy theory, Audi stays on in customer guise. Lambo runs factory vs Porsche.

[chernaudi]

It has to be remember how Volkswagen Group gained ownership of Lamborghini. VAG bought Lamborghini and merged Lambo's stock with Audi, making Audi nominal owner of Lamborghini.

If true, it might just be re-braning Audi Sport's LMP1 program as Lamborghini, and the prefect cover for switching back to gasoline engine technology in LMP1. That is, unless Lamborghini is a customer engine program, or it comes to naught.

[Rodger Davies]

Can't see it myself, I just can't imagine that there's sufficient ROI to make it worthwhile for them at the moment, due to the huge investments involved.

GTE, sure, and P2 if they have customers and can turn a near-profit, but I don't see that they would get enough out of P1.

[MyNameIsNigel]

The most logical step for Lamborghini is to first start with a LMP2 programme as engine supplier as hinted by John, which could happen as early as next year it would seem.

Now, which LMP2 team ? Which car ?

If I am not mistaken, it was rumoured not so long ago that the Ligier JS P2 could soon be powered by a fourth engine (beyond the existing Nissan, HPD and Judd engine options) using some luxury brand currently involved in GT. Looks like Lambo fits nicely into the picture, especially considering that G-Drive Racing run a Lambo in the Blancpain series with Rusinov at the wheel...

As for Audi ultimately using Lamborghini as a "cover" to switch back to petrol engines, I don't really buy into this story. What would prevent Audi from undertaking this switch directly ? How would this be any different to Audi opting to run in F1 and having to switch to petrol as a consequence ?

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

It has to be remember how Volkswagen Group gained ownership of Lamborghini. VAG bought Lamborghini and merged Lambo's stock with Audi, making Audi nominal owner of Lamborghini.

If true, it might just be re-braning Audi Sport's LMP1 program as Lamborghini, and the prefect cover for switching back to gasoline engine technology in LMP1. That is, unless Lamborghini is a customer engine program, or it comes to naught.

Interesting I was thinking about the same.

Audi will do the same think that he already did with bentley with the Speed 8EXP?!?!?!? Who knows?!?!?!

For me the only IF is that Lambo need to introduce hybrid options in the future to make sense this cenario ( road car marketing strategy).

Personally i don´t like the P2 option but "LOVE" the GTE one. HURACAN GTE… yes please

[urdragon]

There are tons of reasons why this looks absurd:

- Dissapointingly, Lamborghini has zero connections to Le mans interests like R&D to the automotion, hybrid engines, consumptions.
- Audi instead is totally the opposite, focused to road cars with interest in R&D for mass automobile market.
- Lamborghini has funds for a LMP1 factory project? To compete with Audi and Porsche?
- Will the WAG group allow a third brand with such little pedigree in Le Mans 24H to rivalise with Porsche and Audi?
- Why not doing a GTE Huracan instead?, when their segment is supercars.

And the most important, Sadly Lambo has Zero hybrids into production, and little interest one year ago (thrown to the public, mistreating hybrid engines... ), except from a prototype of one month ago.

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by urdragon

There are tons of reasons why this looks absurd:

- Dissapointingly, Lamborghini has zero connections to Le mans interests like R&D to the automotion, hybrid engines, consumptions.
- Audi instead is totally the opposite, focused to road cars with interest in R&D for mass automobile market.
- Lamborghini has funds for a LMP1 factory project? To compete with Audi and Porsche?
- Will the WAG group allow a third brand with such little pedigree in Le Mans 24H to rivalise with Porsche and Audi?
- Why not doing a GTE Huracan instead?, when their segment is supercars.

And the most important, Sadly Lambo has Zero hybrids into production, and little interest one year ago (thrown to the public, mistreating hybrid engines... ), except from a prototype of one month ago.

Believe me… nothing is "absurd" in motorsport

[Deleted]

Just as with Subaru('s apparent interest in maybe joining as well in few years), does there necessarily have to be link between the on track product and street car business? Or why smaller brands selling very specific vehicles would want to compete? The hybrid aspect etc doesn't necessarily matter at all for some either, some brands just might want the extra explosure top line LMP program brings. It's not like they can choose either now that the rules are forcefully mandating you to run with hybrids and fuel efficiency. You adapt.

Purely fighting for the top steps of Le Mans to increase the general brand explosure might be enough of a reason without other agendas. Especially as Lambo's heritage in motor racing has never been that great anyway. Currently GT3 and Trofeo, formerly GT1 and some random engine/misc alliances with teams here and there, but nothing major. This would greatly improve that side of things, even if the current prototypes don't greatly bear resemblance to road cars (McLaren's famous P1-rejection words). There can be some good ROI to be found considering the other alternatives

The remaining manufacturers in F1 are mainly there for general brand explosure as well, not to try to sell you direct road cars and technology.

Anyway, LMP2 will be cheap stepping stone without much effort.

[TF110]

Hybrid racecars show a company has hybrid on their radar. Lambo's future is going that direction. As is Subaru. Their line will start to include hybrid cars. WRC arent allowing hybrids for the near future, thats why the lmp1 class looks good. Lamborghini can say the same thing as they want to use hybrids in their sportscars. History has to start somewhere.

[LMP1]

Those in favour of the vote to rename the series VWEC say aye!

Lamborghinis are cool. The outrageousness of their road cars is the exotic dream.

Sure the brand was set up to not be race car company like Ferrari but if Lamborghini joined LMP1 I would be pretty pleased.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by LMP1

Those in favour of the vote to rename the series VWEC say aye!

Lamborghinis are cool. The outrageousness of their road cars is the exotic dream.

Sure the brand was set up to not be race car company like Ferrari but if Lamborghini joined LMP1 I would be pretty pleased.

Or VWVSJPEC (VW vs Japan championship) if Subaru joins

[Deleted]

By 2018 or whenever Lambo & Subaru might or might not join, the regulations can be entirely different anyway and hybrids made voluntary for factory teams again to please more people.

The move towards more efficiency on the other hand is just the general direction we're headed regardless in motorsports. But it's not like all the participants of Group C had fuel mileage first in their business strategy either. So Lambo can have separate prototype racing imago and street car imago with big V10s and V12s.

[TF110]

Hybrids are here to stay. Subaru mentioned hybrid racing as a choice for them being interested in lmp1. Cant see a reversal for mandatory hybrid usage by manufacturers, not in the near future. Maybe alternative fuel technologies will change that requirement?

[urdragon]

Originally Posted by TF110

Hybrid racecars show a company has hybrid on their radar. Lambo's future is going that direction.

Shame for them for saying the opposite words two or three years ago. Lamborghini said no to hybrids, no to sedans, yes to SUVS, their bosses have the same legitimacy as any spanish politics xd. For saying less stupities in a short term period I would ask for their resignation.

Originally Posted by LMP1

Those in favour of the vote to rename the series VWEC say aye!

Originally Posted by TF110

Or VWVSJPEC (VW vs Japan championship) if Subaru joins

LOOOL.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TF110

Hybrids are here to stay. Subaru mentioned hybrid racing as a choice for them being interested in lmp1. Cant see a reversal for mandatory hybrid usage by manufacturers, not in the near future. Maybe alternative fuel technologies will change that requirement?

If the hybrids weren't mandatory (like they are for privateers atm) but voluntary, what harm could there be? The manufacturers selecting hybrids could still utilize them for their marketing and whatever, nothing would change in that respect, but also manufacturers not wanting to go this route could join in. Of course there'd have to be some carrot in the stick for hybrid gang to justify the high dollar spending in contrast to non-hybrid manufacturers, and non-hybrids wouldn't want to have too much of performance disadvantage purely because of the route they've chosen, but those are manageable issues. The hybrid usage concepts could be changed too. If we have choice in fuels, why not in technology...

[LMP1]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

It has to be remember how Volkswagen Group gained ownership of Lamborghini. VAG bought Lamborghini and merged Lambo's stock with Audi, making Audi nominal owner of Lamborghini.

If true, it might just be re-braning Audi Sport's LMP1 program as Lamborghini, and the prefect cover for switching back to gasoline engine technology in LMP1. That is, unless Lamborghini is a customer engine program, or it comes to naught.

Is there anything - apart from brand integrity - stopping VAG rebranding their 3 Audis and 3 Porsches as 1 Audi, 1 Porsche, 1 Lamborghini, 1 Bugatti, 1 Bentley and 1 Volkswagen at Le Mans? Basically identical spec-cars but with different marque branding?

That would be a cost-effective way of putting their brands out there but hardly in the spirit of what it's all about!

[GT6]

Personally i can't see it as already stated the other brands in the vw group have Le Mans history but not really appropriate for Lambo IMHO

[MitchZ06]

If the LMP2 team isn't JLOC stepping up then they'll be fine but honestly I don't see Lamborghini as anything more than a GTE tops marque, they've got nearly no motorsports history in terms of actually building the whole car so going LMP seems really weird to me. Rather see a Huracan GTE than a Lambo LMP1.

[Deleted]

Lambo's history at Le Mans shows that one cannot really talk of return, but rather new possible area to conquer

2010 - 1x GT1 Murcielago R-SV (JLOC)
2009 - 1x GT1 Murcielago R-GT (JLOC) + 1x GT1 IPB Spartak on the initial entry list but folded and never arrived
2008 - 1x GT1 Murcielago R-GT (IPB Spartak)
2007 - 1x GT1 Murcielago R-GT (JLOC)
2006 - 1x GT1 Murcielago R-GT (JLOC)
1996 - (28 car Lamborghini Diablo support race)
1975 - 1x GTX 400 GT Islero (Paul Rilly) didn't qualify
1974 - 2x Sport3000 Urraco (North American Racing & Wicky Racing) never arrived

So 5 times that car with Lambo blood actually raced, and two of those were one lap failures from JLOC

[GT6]

Not a good record then

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Lambo's history at Le Mans shows that one cannot really talk of return, but rather new possible area to conquer

2010 - 1x GT1 Murcielago R-SV (JLOC)
2009 - 1x GT1 Murcielago R-GT (JLOC) + 1x GT1 IPB Spartak on the initial entry list but folded and never arrived
2008 - 1x GT1 Murcielago R-GT (IPB Spartak)
2007 - 1x GT1 Murcielago R-GT (JLOC)
2006 - 1x GT1 Murcielago R-GT (JLOC)
1996 - (28 car Lamborghini Diablo support race)
1975 - 1x GTX 400 GT Islero (Paul Rilly) didn't qualify
1974 - 2x Sport3000 Urraco (North American Racing & Wicky Racing) never arrived

So 5 times that car with Lambo blood actually raced, and two of those were one lap failures from JLOC

Maybe I dreamed this, but wasn't there a Group C car with a Lamborghini engine at some point?

[Deleted]

It's quite funny actually that no matter how horrible JLOC were in following years, in the first year they showed up they actually did good mileage and would've scored 22nd place finish had they been able to compete the final lap (ultimately 28th). More than IPB/Reiter achieved in 2008, even though for obvious reasons slower pace. But they were also on crap Pirellis

[Sodemo]

Lambo should just do a GTE car. I'm not sure if LMP1 is the correct route for them.