2016 World Rally Championship

[ArnageWRC]

To be honest, I'm wondering if it's worth having a thread for this - the same 5/6 posters about the same thing. Ogier & VW winning.

Hyundai hopefully will have got their new car sorted, but I'm not too hopeful - it maybe the only interest is when PH Sport turn up with Meeke et al.

Will be interesting to see how good Camilli is - looked okay in the WRC2 class, but this is a big step up.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by ArnageWRC

To be honest, I'm wondering if it's worth having a thread for this - the same 5/6 posters about the same thing. Ogier & VW winning.

It's a sad reflection of the state of the WRC unfortunately. Realistically is there anyone that's going to beat Ogier this year? On the odd event yes but for the title? Nope.

Originally Posted by ArnageWRC

Hyundai hopefully will have got their new car sorted, but I'm not too hopeful - it maybe the only interest is when PH Sport turn up with Meeke et al.

Will be interesting to see how good Camilli is - looked okay in the WRC2 class, but this is a big step up.

According to Hyundai this is the car they wanted to build from the start but couldn't due to timescales. Whilst they've stopped short of saying they're going to beat VW they are talking about winning events.

It has to be said though that this year is looking like being a very poor year with Citroen only doing a select few events and M-Sport possibly the same (have they confirmed their plans yet?). 2017 had better be worth it!

[crossfades]

I dont know what to expect from Hyundai's new challenger. If the car does have the speed to match the VWs, Neuville, Sordo and Paddon will no doubt have to do their best season yet.

Hopefully Østberg will be a bit quicker in the Ford and Kris Meeke challenge the VWs once again

[tbtstt]

I've got my fingers crossed that the new and improved Hyundai can give VW a run for their money in 2016, though I'm not getting my hopes up. I will obviously be watching this year, but, like Bert says...

Originally Posted by BertMk2

2017 had better be worth it!

...it's 2017 that I'm waiting for!

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by ArnageWRC

To be honest, I'm wondering if it's worth having a thread for this - the same 5/6 posters about the same thing. Ogier & VW winning.

I still enjoy the WRC but the problem is a systemic one. A WRC formula that only produces one competitive car and has no endurance element is always going to predicable. We had a decade of one Seb winning, now we might have another decade of another Seb winning. As a rally fan I think they are both real heroes but for the average motorsport fan it has been a snooze-fest. Even Wales RallyGB barely get a mention in the UK media these days.

Hyundai might put VW under a bit more pressure but I can't see them doing much for at least twelve months - and even if they do fairly well I fear it will only really serve to conceal the more fundamental problems with the sport.

[S griffin]

Shame Citroen are only doing a part season, because Meeke I feel is the only man ATM who can challenge Seb over a full year. Then again I'm prepared to be surprised and see if some of the other names can win more often this season.

[chunder]

Sadly I think Kris has had his chances.

Yes agreed he has been struck by bad luck and bad teams, but in peoples careers they sometimes only get s fleeting chance and need to take it quickly.

Ogier did it, Solberg did it, Markko Martin did it as did plenty of others. But that was in the days of more cars and teams, Kris was never outstanding in S1600 when he was there, and has been good only really this past year, so does deserve a crack, but had chance to lead a team in Toyota but decided against it.

On these decision can sometimes swing a career

[crossfades]

Did anyone see that Sordo was nominated as first driver by Hyundai in the manufacture championship? Neuville said a few weeks ago that he was to be the first driver, Hyundai apparently thinks otherwise. Any thoughts on Sordo taking top spot, although the Hyundai drivers all have the same possibilities and conditions?

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by crossfades

Did anyone see that Sordo was nominated as first driver by Hyundai in the manufacture championship? Neuville said a few weeks ago that he was to be the first driver, Hyundai apparently thinks otherwise. Any thoughts on Sordo taking top spot, although the Hyundai drivers all have the same possibilities and conditions?

Hyundai were at pains to say that they have no number one driver but had to nominate one driver to comply with the FIA rules and they chose Sordo. However, you get the impression that Sordo is the defacto lead driver - Neuville does seem to have blotted his copybook with several mistakes last year that lead to retirements.

[NaBUru38]

Rally fans write at motorsportforums.com.

I think that there are too many gravel races. Portugal and Italy should be mixed.

[WolfsburgRS]

Hey Guys,

I'm not new to the forums per say..I usually stick to just the Sportscar side of things, but was a huge Rally fan back in the 90s. I hadn't been following much over the past 10 years or so (got a little bored with the Seb I decade) but sort of rediscovering it again. I'm a huge VW fan but typically I prefer good racing to brand dominance so hoping for some challenge to VW this year...

One question from someone who is not very well versed with the current state of things: Is the VW / Ogier dominance down to the Polo R being that much better, or is Ogier just that good?

[crossfades]

Originally Posted by WolfsburgRS

Hey Guys,

I'm not new to the forums per say..I usually stick to just the Sportscar side of things, but was a huge Rally fan back in the 90s. I hadn't been following much over the past 10 years or so (got a little bored with the Seb I decade) but sort of rediscovering it again. I'm a huge VW fan but typically I prefer good racing to brand dominance so hoping for some challenge to VW this year...

One question from someone who is not very well versed with the current state of things: Is the VW / Ogier dominance down to the Polo R being that much better, or is Ogier just that good?

Both actually. The Polo is a very good developed car and probably the best one in the 1600 cc era, probably the car with most testing and most money put in to it. They actually froze development during their second season just because they were so dominant.

And Ogier is just about as good as Loeb. Latvala, Meeke and Mikkelsen has matched him but he has the consistency like no other driver while also being the fastest one overall. A rumor has it that when VW asked Ogier to join them, they said; "Say a number and we will pay it"

[BertMk2]

As crossfades says the Polo is the best car (by some distance), the Hyundai was a compromised design from the outset, the Citroen hasn't been developed as much as needed over the last couple of years (Citroen having one eye on the wtcc) and M-Sport don't have the money. The worrying thing is that VW stopped working on the Polo (because they didn't need to do any more to win) and started work on their 2017 car - so chances are even with a rules reset the VW will be the class of the field.

Ogier is also the best driver in the field, he's quick and consistent - there are others out there that are quick but they all seem to be very hit and miss in terms of whether they deliver the pace or not. Latvala is the biggest disappointment for me - he has promised so much and is always 'nearly' there, he just seems to fall short (or fall off the road) too often.

For 2017 I'm hoping the Citroen can at least match the Polo - then we should see Meeke taking the fight to Ogier.

[kurski]

Esa-Pekka Lappi said Savon-Sanomat morning broadsheet newspaper that his Skoda contract ends season end and welcomes the fact that Toyota is interested in him. His goal is to become the WRC1 class driver Monte-Carlo in 2017 and winning World Championship.

[Alex Langheck]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Rally fans write at motorsportforums.com.

I think that there are too many gravel races. Portugal and Italy should be mixed.

Agree - far too many dry, dusty gravel events; which add nothing to the WRC!! From a 'road relevance' point of view, surely there should be an even split between gravel and Tarmac.

I actually like the suggestion, seen on another forum of an International Tarmac Rally Championship; for 2WD & GT cars....imagine that.

[chunder]

The tar series is a great idea because in the rest of Europe you can close roads and in places like Italy, Belgium, Holland, a lot of Eastern Europe gravel rallying is by far the poor relation.

The GT class works pretty well in Benelux, but not enough cars yet I think to have a full series.

[tbtstt]

M-Sport go blue for 2016...

[BertMk2]

Have to say I quite like the look of that There's still an alarming lack of sponsors on there though - I wonder how much Ford are putting into the pot?

[chunder]

Not much as it is not a works team really.

I would imagine building everything Ford use in rallying from beginner to top level eases Wilsons pocket considerably! They are pretty much the go to team for your career!

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by chunder

Not much as it is not a works team really.

It's not a works team but that's still quite big Ford branding on the car - there must be a reasonable amount of money coming in from Ford.

Originally Posted by chunder

I would imagine building everything Ford use in rallying from beginner to top level eases Wilsons pocket considerably! They are pretty much the go to team for your career!

That's what's kept M-Sport in the WRC - having one model available in so many different specifications really has saved their bacon.

[chunder]

To be fair, Citroen and Peugeot both do it to some degree as do Skoda

Lord knows how many S2000 Fabia and 207's have been sold, gotta be well over 300 each, thats a lot of money, far more than Ford made from their version.

[Alex Langheck]

Officially, Ford put no money in. They may support M-Sport in other ways - but even when they were in the WRC, they didn't back M-Sport in a big way.

Compare to their new WEC effort with the Ford GT; they're throwing the kitchen sink at it with money, resources, drivers, etc and all with the top brass involved at the announcement.

And even today, Ford are to be the new car suppliers to the Team Sky cycling team; Ford will get more exposure from cycling than they will with rallying. It's common sense.

[crossfades]

Ford were "officially" with M-Sport in the WRC for 15 years and there was not great success really even if they were competitive. According to a friend of mine official manufactures, not private teams for hire or teams that are not directly connected with the manufacture, is the only way to have success nowadays in the WRC and VW is a perfect example of that.

[Alex Langheck]

Yes, M-Sport got the contract in 1997 - and won 2 Manufacturer Titles....not a great return. In fact, Ford's record in the WRC is actually pretty poor.

The best way to win is with a proper 'Factory' team; like Citroen were, and now VW.

[chunder]

The thing is with Ford they always seem to everything bum about face.

They had a great car in the Escort Cosworth and gave it a couple of years before selling out to RAS yet spent millions on the awful 4x4 Sierra.

They went for fwd with the Fiesta, RS Turbo and Escort 1600. And who can forget the disastrous RS1700T. When it was obviously a bad idea.

The Sierra was a huge success yet it was plainly not a good rally car! Weird!

Their best car was the Markko Martin/Duval Focus. That car should have won the WRC but at the time Malc didn't have perhaps the two best drivers, with Marcus back then he would have won it I am sure.

the Ford GT is for the US market, it's why it is being raced there predominantly.

Still now their biggest success will always be the Mk2 Escort, totally relevant even now, and I am sure there have been thousands built from scratch in the UK alone in recent years!