Building a historic saloon race car

[markymar93]

Hi. I am building a 60s historic saloon race car. Just wondered how much i am able to lighten the car. Many thanks Mark

[rww]

Originally Posted by markymar93

Hi. I am building a 60s historic saloon race car. Just wondered how much i am able to lighten the car. Many thanks Mark

Totally dependent on the championship/series/club you intend to race in/with. For example cars prepared to Appendix K are allowed very limited modifications whilst those entered for CSCC Swinging Sixties can be significantly lightened.

[morninggents]

The technical regulations for HRSR/HSCC Historic Touring Cars are on the HSCC website and describe what modifications are allowed to bodywork/chassis etc. and minimum weights for each class and sub class are stated. Presumably CSCC and CTCRC have similar tech regs which should be on their websites. I know CTCRC allow less freedom than HSCC.
As rww states, Appendix K regulations allow less freedom still and many areas of technical aspects are strictly defined by the homologation papers for individual historic touring cars. These papers are available for a fee from MSUK. Some on here may have the papers you require. What car are you building?

[Lancsbreaker]

Yes, CSCC regulations are on the website, but AFAIK apart from the Classic K which may be restricted by FIA requirements, none of the series have any minimum weights......

[MGDavid]

If you are preparing to FIA historic regulations you can find and download the Homologation document free of charge here:-

https://historicdb.fia.com/

Is it a BMW you're building? there's about 10 pages of models and variants from early 1960s through to late 1990s :-)

[zefarelly]

Thanks to the general acceptance of 'anything goes' 500kg should be your maximum target. Why use steel and aluminium when titanium and magnesium are all on the shelf

As David has pointed out, the FiA papers list weights. Given none of the cars had safety cages or space frames then, they're a realistic target, especially if you rip out all the character of the car.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

Thanks to the general acceptance of 'anything goes' 500kg should be your maximum target. Why use steel and aluminium when titanium and magnesium are all on the shelf

As David has pointed out, the FiA papers list weights. Given none of the cars had safety cages or space frames then, they're a realistic target, especially if you rip out all the character of the car.

Do I detect a little bitterness here Zef?

[morninggents]

I think he got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning, as my mother used to say!

[Lancsbreaker]

I'd have though 500kg for a J40 pedal car was a bit high........


Apologies to original poster for our slight deviation of track.......

[zefarelly]

I prefer to consider it fact based sarcasm.

Anyone able to prove otherwise?

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by markymar93

I am building a 60s historic saloon race car. Just wondered how much i am able to lighten the car.

Hi. I find morninggents asked the good questions. You need the homologation form, the FIA appendix K, the appendix J of period and the regulations of the series you'd like to enter.

Not forgetting that when finishing the prep of your car if the weight is too low you can add some ballast (place of the said ballast up to you). If I'm correct the total weight includes the rops and all the safety devices.

May be the easiest way is to contact a reknown team.

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

I prefer to consider it fact based sarcasm.
Anyone able to prove otherwise?

Nope, not me.

[zefarelly]

In all seriousness, If we knew what the marque/model was we may be able to offer sensibe/daft suggestions in more detail.

They 2 big ones are Do you have a **** load of money to burn and do you want to be competitive.

If the answers are no and yes, in that order, you'll need a lot of time.

Many of us here have had a bit of success, spent lots of money and time.

What's changed significantly in recent years is the type of development, not just garagiste ingenuity but full blown modern racing technological advancements, which have rendered old cars irrelevant and uncompetitive.

I've said many times before, the spec of the cars and homologation details haven't changed for 50-60 years, but cars are continually getting faster. They look, measure, handle, go, stop, do everything, differently.

[Lancsbreaker]

Always seem slightly odd when a poster asks a question then doesn't respond to any replies......

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Always seem slightly odd when a poster asks a question then doesn't respond to any replies......

The question was: I am building a 60s historic saloon race car. Just wondered how much i am able to lighten the car. Again I'd say you can lighten it as much as you possibily can, then put some ballast to reach the homologated weight. Depending on the particular car and the targeted series… Et voila!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Always seem slightly odd when a poster asks a question then doesn't respond to any replies......

They haven't logged on since asking the question.

It might seem odd, but not every poster visits as regular as others.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

It might seem odd, but not every poster visits as regular as others.

Knowing the car is from 60's, many of us here wont have the answer!

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Always seem slightly odd when a poster asks a question then doesn't respond to any replies......

Yes, yes it does. Is it a child, a race organiser, The FiA or maybe a middle aged bloke thats just sold a house

[GORDON STREETER]

The problem only rears it's head if a new car appears on the scene and is suddenly at the sharp end and possibly winning straight away, especially if the driver has never raced before.
If the same car is at the back of the grid and is racing with the tail enders then you could get away with murder.

[midgetman]

It's also a strange question to ask. There are other more pertinent homologation questions that are grist to the mill of forums like this, but "how much to lighten a car" sounds like a leading question.

As in the next post being: "aha, well X uses all carbon fibre body parts so that is legal is it?"

(Example used for illustrative purposes only. No defamation implied over X or his/her/their vehicle or his/her/their reputation. Sorry X if you take offence, it wasn't intended)

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Example used for illustrative purposes only. No defamation implied over X or his/her/their vehicle or his/her/their reputation. Sorry X if you take offence, it wasn't intended)

I'm a Y's friend, why dont you ever talk about her/him/them?

[midgetman]

Sorry Gerard I didn't mean to be Y-ist. Please don't cancel me. Some of my best friends are Ys, in fact I'm thinking of identifying as a Y.

I'll change my screen name to Midgetmay.

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

[Gerard C]

You made my daY, thanks!

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by midgetman

It's also a strange question to ask. There are other more pertinent homologation questions that are grist to the mill of forums like this, but "how much to lighten a car" sounds like a leading question.

As in the next post being: "aha, well X uses all carbon fibre body parts so that is legal is it?"

(Example used for illustrative purposes only. No defamation implied over X or his/her/their vehicle or his/her/their reputation. Sorry X if you take offence, it wasn't intended)

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

I removed the aluminium skinned doors from my car as they looked crap, and refitted steel factory doors.

I managed to get the steel doors 6kg lighter . . . With winders and opening 1/4 lights.

They're full of helium

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

Yes, yes it does. Is it a child, a race organiser, The FiA or maybe a middle aged bloke thats just sold a house

the only option is the last one; it's only a few seconds to look at a profile and a poster's pre4vious posts. Mark is 42and he was on here 3 years ago asking about lightening a Volvo Amazon - and was pointed at the Homologation papers then.