BTCC- and ETCC- Cars together- what must be done?

[Thommy]

As you might know, there are many different touring-car-concepts in europe- the dtm, btcc, french-super-tourisme, superproduction, v8star to name a few. Economically problems worldwide kills some racing-series, for example german motorsportfans counted 16 cars for the dtc (raced with superproduction cars). So we must ask ourself, what must be done to have one base in touringcarsport? I think having one base is impossible because of the different marketing- thougths of the car- manufactors. What if two concepts running at the same race? I think this question sounds interesting. What must be done to race BTCC- cars and ETCC- cars together in one field? Do you think it's possible? What technical changing must be done both concepts are possible to win? The starting field could be great: Alfa Romeo, BMW and Volvo with Super2000-cars, Honda, Lexus, MG, Opel and Proton with BTCC-car. What do you think?

[pink69]

I think we need just a single format, like with super touring. Question is, which is the best format? DTM? BTCC? ETCC? French Supertourisme?

[Thommy]

All formats are very good. But look at the economical problems in the world, and look at the costs of these series. A DTM car costs 500.000 €! I read a btcc car costs ca. 170.000 €! I think we need a kind of silouette-touring-car-series... For example btcc and stronger engines, maybe supertouring-engines.

[Markules]

The ETCC and BTCC regs should be standardised, I think, because I can see a lot of the manufacturers wanting to run a few cars in both in a few years time.

The DTM, though, I doubt will follow suit any time soon - speaking to a few touring car fans there last year, they were going on about how they found supertourers dull after enjoying the old DTM/ITC cars, and how the new reg cars are much, much more entertaining to watch. Sure the costs are higher, but the series is a lot more popular than the BTCC there or the ETCC in Europe, for instance, the Germans have live broadcasting of races on terrestrial telly (as opposed to only on cable for the ETCC or hardly ever for the BTCC, alas), a lot more coverage in the press and massive crowds at most rounds, so the money coming in is that much greater.

[kmchow]

I also share Markules thoughts. I think there should be 2 or 3 levels of racing.

1st level(GrpN??)-1.6L-2L displacement, limited engine mods, totally stock bodyshells,no engine moving
2nd level(BTCC or ETCC-ish)-2L engine displacement, more engine mods, allow for aerodynamic aids, limited engine moving
3rd level(DTM??)-4-5L displacement, same amount of engine mods as 2nd level.

Of course, each level has a privateer as well as works involvement. Possibly a 3rd competition for Works Junior squads??

Sound reasonable? Good racing ladder wherebys drivers can move up the series. Of course, getting everyone together is the hard part. Surely, if everyone gets involved, the costs of sharings/design/used car market, could bring down costs heavily???

[Michael H]

we need a world touring car championship for 2L cars at the end of the season. Raced over a few rounds. Spa, St Jovite (Canada), Fuji, Bathurst, re-born Kyalami, Macau, Brands Hatch GP, Vallelunga.

The world formula could use weight ballast to even the ETCC and BTC Touring cars.

[runnyhunny]

I don't think there is a massive need for the BTCC and ETCC do adopt the same technical regulations. If a manufacturer has an ETCC car, I'm sure it's fairly straightforward to change it to BTCC specification (swap some factory parts for those from TOCA). In fact, I'm sure some people from Honda said much the same thing.

[StuiE]

good thread

I think the Turbo should be brought back, with low boost say 10 psi(low for a race car) it would be easy to make power

I also think(i think a lot of things) that the BTCC formula is wrong, cos the cars r getting smaller every year( eg: Honda Accord then down to civic) and personally i dont like the flares they r too small they have to be pumped to look good

btw what r the regs is French Supertourisme

[runnyhunny]

What's wrong with smaller cars? There used to be Minis in the BTCC, you know! Those Sierra Cosworths were not exactly 4-door saloons, either...

[StuiE]

the sierra wasnt that small, i just dont like full race cars that small, the pre-2001 cars were perfect

[racer69]

agree, all outright class cars should be 4.2m in length, and either coupes or sedans.

No doubt there should be standard Touring Car regulations across the world, like with Group A. Maybe the current ETC regs would be ok as a world formula.

If i had my way we would have a form of Group A, but without the Turbo's and without the sporting evolutions, or the sporting evolutions could only consist of cosmetic changes.