Overtaking 2004

[cos]

OK, here we have some overtaking stats for this season so far: (not definitive - I'll do a more thorough one halfway through the season)


1 Alonso 5
=Fisichella
=Montoya
=Webber

2 Klien 4
=Panis

3 Coulthard 3
=Massa
=Bruni
=Button
=Trulli

4 da Matta 2
=Raikonnen
=R. Schumacher
=Sato

5 Pantano 1
=Baumgartner
=Heidfeld

6 Barrichello 0
=M. Schumacher

[DriverT]

Well, the last entry speaks volumes. The Ferrari drivers have not had to overtake anyone as they have been at the front. Fisichella surprises me though. Maybe it indicates he has a reasonable car but qualifies badly.

[Peter Mallett]

You could also say the same for Button as he's the only one, other than Mickey, to lead away from pole and he was passed in the pits at Imola. (I stand to be corrected on this though).

[Led ZeppF1]

Errr, actually Michael overtake some car during race.

Ooopps, its overlap.

[Led ZeppF1]

Originally posted by DriverT
Well, the last entry speaks volumes. The Ferrari drivers have not had to overtake anyone as they have been at the front.

Michael had to overtake Truli yesterday. But, he choice to pass Truli in the pits.

[BootsOntheSide]

That really endorses how well Mark, Fernando, JPM and Giancarlo have been performing. You can't really criticise Michael for not having overtaken anyone...

Interesting that JPM is well ahead of Ralf, considering that he's outqualified him 5-0 as well - another sign of what a lacklustre year this has been for him?

[twig]

First of all, if you did these yourself, well done cos, seems like a hard job.

What needs to be emphasised, is what sort of quality of car these people are passing. I am not sure what the rule of what you include is cos, i assume pit strategy doesnt count, and from another statistic, neither do passes on the first lap.

Look at Alonso though, he qualified very poorly in Malaysia and Bahrain, so he had cars which were far slower then him to pass - surely Montoya's equal amounts of passes against higher quality drivers deserves more credit.

[josvandeperre]

Your stats show that the change that specifically needs addressing in the new rules is over-taking - no tinkering around the edges - make cars able to approach and overtake again - and the changes should be promoted that way too

[jetsetter]

The problem with F1 today is that too much emphasis is placed on pit stops & most of the positional changes take place through the pit stops, i reckon that F1 should move away from pit stops & work on encouraging overtaking on the circuit.

[Adam43]

Thanks cos. The stats show us the situation here.

Originally posted by cos
6 Barrichello 0
=M. Schumacher

There are two points here:

• No need to overtake when you are at the front
• Pitstops don't count as overtaking!

The first one is fair enough.
The second one: Ban refuelling.

[krt917]

Absolutely. If we do get a ban on TC and a SIGNIFICANT reduction in downforce, fuel stops will be my next ranting topic!!

[dcp2685]

What boots mentioned between Montoya and Ralf is spot on. Montoya has had a pretty good season thus far from a racing standpoint not points, but an uncompetitive car that has broken twice on him. While Webber is up there on the overtaking points, Klein is not far behind.

What i want to know is....Considering he's almost 2 sec off his teammates pace...who the hell did Baumgartner pass!!!

[MADDOG-99]

Originally posted by cos
OK, here we have some overtaking stats for this season so far:

Overtaking!

What Overtaking?????????

[Adam43]

Total: 54 over 5 GP. Eleven per GP. Not the best, but I wonder how this compares to five GP in other years.

Oh and krt. Refuelling is already the top of my rant list!!

[MADDOG-99]

"54"?
Does this include when a car effectively overtakes in the pit or as a result of a pit

[Adam43]

No it is just a total of the above, which doesn't include pit stops because Michael has zero.

[MADDOG-99]

Thanks, i'v only just figured out how to read the table at the top!!!
sry

[Adam43]

Do we think 54 is a lot or not many? What is normal, compared with the past or other series????

[esorniloc]

Does this included everyone overtaking Montoya when he had to slow down in the closing laps in Bahrain. If so that counts for at least 10 of the 54 moves.

[MADDOG-99]

I'm not sure how that compares to other seasons but the thing that gets to me is the how up front, theres no forcing errors etc

[Knowlesy]

54 is an abysmal amount for five races. There are 20 cars out there for god's sake and we can only muster 54?

An interesting point here....how many of those 54 were televised? I'd bet 10.

[cos]

Last year, as per this thread we had about 304 over the course of 17 races. That's 17.88 per race for 2003. 2004's average so far is 10.8

[Don K]

Originally posted by cos
4 da Matta 2
=Raikonnen
=R. Schumacher
=Sato

Are you sure about that?

As far as I remember, the cameras showed Ralf overtaking 3 cars in Bahrayn.

So that would mean that he didn't overtake any car off camera, and he didn't overtake any car during the other races.

And I assume this doesn't include overtakings when the driver loses the position during the rest of that lap ...

[cos]

As far as I can see from the lap chart Ralf overtook thrice in Bahrain but the first of those was Klien when he had his off-track excursion so it doesn't really count as a move...

[Don K]

He overtook Sato, Massa and Fisichella on camera.

Apparently his move on Sato didn't count because Sato managed to punt him off at the next corner ...
(As far as I remember, most media described this as Sato overtaking/trying to overtake Ralf. As Ralf started that lap driving behind Sato, I think this means that Ralf's overtaking move should count ...)