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11 Jul 2007, 14:16 (Ref:1960720) | #1 | ||
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Who agrees with Mike Cotton?
Interesting piece on DSC with which I agree, he must have been reading our various threads, what does anybody else think?
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11 Jul 2007, 14:27 (Ref:1960725) | #2 | |
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No, Michael definitely doesn't read ten-tenths. I reckon FIA GTs needs to overcome the current lack of appeal of the two hour events.. and the two pit stops.
I suggested to Michael that races should be of one (2 races at one meeting), two, three, four, five and six hours duration, plus the Spa 24 - he agreed, with the exception of two one hour races: he hates those. OK, drop that, and let's have a championship of six big events, on proper circuits. |
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11 Jul 2007, 14:45 (Ref:1960735) | #3 | ||
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If you want a Championship consisting of only 6 or so events consisting of races of various distances then go to the LMS. If however you want spectator friendly races then stick with the current format. FIA GT this year is racing at circuits which are some of the best in the world, sure not all of them can claim that status but all of the circuits the series visits this year are all very good international level tracks. IMO.
Personally I like the current format, maybe though they could do with getting rid of the 2 pitstop requirement and let the teams pit when they want to. After all even the GT2 class cars would have to make a stop over a 2 hour race distance length. Of course they might not need to change tyres with things as they are but a control tyre could always be introduced to increase tyre wear and make tyre changes more necaessary than they are now. |
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11 Jul 2007, 15:22 (Ref:1960754) | #4 | ||
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Spectator friendly the circuits might be but all too often there are precious few spectators!
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11 Jul 2007, 16:16 (Ref:1960793) | #5 | |||
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11 Jul 2007, 16:46 (Ref:1960815) | #6 | ||
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I agree that..
The pit stop rule needs to be eliminated. I disagree that... Inspection needs to be changed. It is the responsibility of the teams to ensure that their cars are in compliance with the rules. If a team is at all concerned, perhaps they should ask for an inspection early on in the week, voluntarily, not manditory. Yes, it is disappointing when results change, but the fault of that is with the teams, not organizers. |
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11 Jul 2007, 17:10 (Ref:1960838) | #7 | ||
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I think Cotton hit it pretty much right on the head. I agree 100%!!
L.P. |
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11 Jul 2007, 17:19 (Ref:1960850) | #8 | |
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I am undecided tbh - while i like the 6 hour format of the LMS i actually think this is the biggest hinderance to the future of the sport as a spectator event at the track unless they substantially improve the state of the tracks they race on - ie. good radio coverage, screens, maybe some alternate attractions for those moments when you feel like you need a break (LM has got it right).
Back to the question though FIA GT is fine at the 2 hour mark as long as they get rid of the daft 2 pitstop rule. It is sportscar racing NOT endurance racing (leave that for the LMS) - while i like the Spa 24 i do think it was better as a touring car race, grids are too small atm unless it is combined with LMS for a single race ? Besides i have other things i like to do on a sunday other than spend the best part of it watching a race (6 sundays for the LMS is fine - no more though). |
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11 Jul 2007, 17:25 (Ref:1960852) | #9 | |||
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I wouldnt be bothered to travel to see the Fia Gt for a 2 hour race , good racing as it is . |
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11 Jul 2007, 17:51 (Ref:1960874) | #10 | ||
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FIA GT has been running in various incarnations for almost 15 years and from the TV pictures Oscherslaben appeared almost deserted. The racing was desperately dull and the series has stagnated in terms of new cars. What will happen to FIA GT if Vitaphone and another major team leave? I could quite easily see Vitaphone being in the running for an R10 or 908 in the LMS. 4 hr races with 50 GT3 cars would appeal and keep FIA GT alive and kicking. |
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11 Jul 2007, 17:57 (Ref:1960876) | #11 | ||
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I was talking about the races being spectator friendly Graham rather than the actual circuits themselves. For me, and lots of other casual (admitedly not generally for the hardcore fans that we get here) motorsport fans the FIA GT format as it is is very good. As much as I love the LMS I do often find myself getting a little bored, so often this year has it been about 1 or 2 cars per class just dissapearing off into the distance after the first couple of hours and everyone else just trailing in their wake, this is particulary the case in LMP1. IMO. At least in FIA GT you get good close hard racing for the entire duration of the race.
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11 Jul 2007, 17:58 (Ref:1960877) | #12 | |||
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11 Jul 2007, 18:18 (Ref:1960887) | #13 | ||
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FIA GT at Oschersleben had 30.000 over the weekend.
LMS at Nürburgring I don't know. some kind of race at the Nordschleife on the LMS weekend (saturday) got 7.000 spectators. |
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11 Jul 2007, 18:20 (Ref:1960890) | #14 | ||
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I wasn't inviting a comparison with the LMS - I think that series has a different set of 'issues' principally surrounding an almost complete lack of promotion and almost nil help for the paying spectators to make sense of what is going on in the race (why on earth for instance when the majority of cars used position lights at LM were they removed for an LMS race 2 weeks later!!!). Why the continued (and senseless) lack of any multi-lingual commentary on the web and locally at the circuits?
My point is that whatever promotion is going on isn't hacking it - I would agree that Silverstone had some sort of crowd but it was NOWHERE near 30,000 despite what I thought was a reasonable stab by SRO, the RAC and others - That means that either they are going for the wrong market or that they have a product that the public don't want to buy. And don't get too wrapped up in grid numbers either - The Citation Cup is on the FIA GT grid for one reason - They are worried about numbers and the half dozen or so extras that this has attracted might be pretty and make a nice noise but they do nothing for the racing spectacle other than providing traffic that's too fast in a straight line for the leading GT2 cars to get by safely. |
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11 Jul 2007, 18:22 (Ref:1960892) | #15 | ||
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11 Jul 2007, 20:23 (Ref:1960995) | #16 | |
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Group C showed 1000K events with manufactuer support, promotion and a good few years behind them can bring in the crowds.
When they chased TV ratings and shortened events it was the begining of the end. LMS doesn't yet have the necessary promotion or manufactuer suppoprt behind it, neither has it really established itself in the wider world yet. Attract Audi and another manufactuer to P1, and I firmly believe it will take off. With Peugeot using the 908 in primetime TV ad's, if nothing else, it shows the big money and potential behind these kinds of manufactuer efforts, which can only benefit the LMS long term. Last edited by JAG; 11 Jul 2007 at 20:27. |
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11 Jul 2007, 21:46 (Ref:1961079) | #17 | ||
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I think perhaps sprint racing is the way to go, but do away with the two pitstop rule, its confusing and silly. How about a driver doin it solo if he wants to?
FIA GT should be maybe a 2hour (excepting Spa) race and have as many or few pitstops as wanted. And do away with stupid rules like being pushed/driving around the paddock. That's just bloody silly. |
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12 Jul 2007, 00:29 (Ref:1961166) | #18 | |||
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As far as he goes, I agree with Michael Cotton, but I think there are issues with the GT classes beyond those he addresses within FIA-GT. Specifically to Mr. Cotton's article:
Quote:
Quote:
http://lastturnclub.com/index.php?op...d=158&Itemid=1 |
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12 Jul 2007, 08:16 (Ref:1961316) | #19 | ||
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Sure Group C had a lot of manufacturers, but few were committed (financially) to the extent that would be needed now to make a successful program. Being at Le Mans was what seemed to matter back then, but marketing now dictates that winning is the only reason to go. I'd rather see fully committed people like Martin Short and Henri Pescarolo face the giants than to see the half-hearted attempts of the past return. |
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12 Jul 2007, 09:03 (Ref:1961356) | #20 | ||
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So the opinion seems to be that 2 hours is perhaps acceptable but get rid of the 2 pit stop rule.
As I think I said before somewhere, probably on the FIA thread, with one stop for fuel there are plenty professional drivers who would happily do the race alone and that would make for some excellent racing. You would need to restrict the number of people allowed to work on the car in the pit lane and DO NOT go for a control tyre, keep the tyre companies in competition. We would attract only top drivers, spectator numbers would increase provided they were able to follow the progress of the cars after the pitstop. If you go back to 3 hours then two drivers would be essential, but for a 2 hour race leave it to the teams |
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12 Jul 2007, 09:11 (Ref:1961365) | #21 | ||
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Personally I would prefer to have just 1 driver per car. Fans like to support drivers, by having 1 driver per car people can identify with that car more easily than they can when there are 2 drivers per car. A good example of this is the DTM or even the WTCC. From a fans perspective it works. There would still be differnces between FIA GT and the DTM, like the fact FIA GT has what are IMO better cars and the ammount of people who can work on the car at any one time in the pit lane is limited to 2 people. I have to admit though if the ACO did adopt DTM/F1 style pitstops I think it would only be a good thing. Sure you woudnt need 20 or so people working on the car like F1 but perhaps 11 people.
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12 Jul 2007, 09:30 (Ref:1961378) | #22 | ||
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So you would reduce the potential income to the team by reducing from two to one driver but increase their costs by dramatically increasing the number of people on the team. That's not really going to work now is it?
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12 Jul 2007, 09:36 (Ref:1961387) | #23 | ||
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Dramatically increasing the number of people on the team? Most teams in FIA GT have sufficent numbers of engineers and mechanics to enable them to perform a 11 man pitstop Graham. As for reducing the potential income of the teams, well in GT1 a lot of the entries are running all professional driving line up's, by having to pay 2 drivers like they are now they are spending more money than they would be by running 1 driver per car.
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12 Jul 2007, 09:50 (Ref:1961395) | #24 | ||
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Very few teams have the available personnel to run an 11 man crew, particularly for two cars - Secondly, pro drivers they may be but most are being paid by a sponsor and not the team.
Never going to happen |
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12 Jul 2007, 09:58 (Ref:1961400) | #25 | ||
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2 cars Graham? Im not suggesting that both cars pit at the same time, merley that there are 11 crew members for the pitstops. Sure it may never happen, but then again it might. Stranger things have happened in motorsport, a few years ago for example Moto GP was considered the poor relation to WSBK, these days however as we all know the situation is very different. The same applies with the ETCC, a few years ago it was just Alfa, BMW and Volvo now there are 3 factory teams and Alfa romeo looking to come back soon too and possibly Lancia and the series is a FIA world championship. Who would have said either of these things would have happened when you look back at how the Championships were in say 2000? Things can, and do change.
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