Pre & Post '90 in the North West

[Walshy]

Following a few rumours flying around of late, is the North West Championship going to follow suit from the others and go Pre & Post '90 from next season.

Not too bothered either way myself although the costs of being competitive in the Post class is rising all the time, what with drivers running new tyres for each race and carrying spare engines to each meeting.

I know there was some talk about it after the first round as it gave a much more even split on the grids, but I also know a lot of drivers didn't approve as they had bought specific cars to be competitive in the Pre '87 class.

Can anyone shed any light on what may or may not be happening for next season and if you don't know, tell me what you think of it anyway?

Cheers

[blue nose]

Chris the meddlers like to change things to make them selves feel important I dont think any of them have sat in a race car before I still like the old system of pre 87 and post 86 or the other way around any way I think any change is not in the interest of the sport,well except engine parts.

[diz]

Originally posted by blue nose
Chris the meddlers like to change things to make them selves feel important I dont think any of them have sat in a race car before I still like the old system of pre 87 and post 86 or the other way around any way I think any change is not in the interest of the sport,well except engine parts.

Enjoying your holiday Alan? Don't forget to take those photos.

As for the 'meddlers', you don't need to have played Premier League football to know that Houllier and Ericcson were lacking in the tactical awareness department. Equally, you don't need to have raced to know that different class splits, or no classes whatsoever, would improve the FF1600 show.

Anyway, without these 'meddlers', there wouldn't be a sport to meddle with. Every sport needs it's core base of enthusiastic organisers - meddlers - to give it's participants a sport to take part in. Sadly, the vast majority of club racing drivers are never seen again once they stop racing. Wouldn't it be nice if they stopped on as marshals, or meddlers and put something back into the sport.

any change is not in the interest of the sport,well except engine parts.

What is this supposed to mean? Why would a change to the class date split have anything to do with engine parts.

See you on the 31st - hopefully with your teddy back in it's pram.

[blue nose]

Diz its 95 today with a bit of a breeze,but what I mean is there should not be any changes to something that works just for the sake of a change...but as we all know some prat will mess it up.

[John Wilkinson]

'Equally, you don't need to have raced to know that different class splits, or no classes whatsoever, would improve the FF1600 show.'

What evidence is there to support this? Whats wrong with the current show?

'Anyway, without these 'meddlers', there wouldn't be a sport to meddle with. Every sport needs it's core base of enthusiastic organisers - meddlers - .....'

Agree with the above but note, Every sport needs it's core base of enthusiatic COPETITITORS as well.

DO NOT MESS WITH SOMETHING THAT HAS WORKed WELL FOR YEARS AND IS NOT BROKEN.

[diz]

Originally posted by Walshy
Following a few rumours flying around of late, is the North West Championship going to follow suit from the others and go Pre & Post '90 from next season.

Walshy [and John W]
I have no knowledge of these rumours, I am just joining in the debate.

At present, NW FF1600 is the only region with entry levels necessitating two grids per meeting and the original split was at Pre87 / Post86.

".... is the North West Championship going to follow suit from the others and go Pre & Post '90 from next season ....."

There is no suit to follow. Combe always refer to Pre90 and SOM to Pre87 [but only get the odd entry in it] and SFFC would love to be able to join in this debate.

All regions run to the five class system nowadays and IMHO this is too many, but at least each class has it's own points table. So - and it is a big so - if the 'on the day split was made Pre90, Post86, Pre96 or whatever, the only difference would be who is going for the outright win in the 'older class' Maybe the Pre87 split should become Pre90 to even the grid sizes out. Who knows?

If I'm not careful here, I might start advocating the 'a Formula Ford is a Formula Ford period and all entries qualify via two sessions, go into a heat, or straight into the final - despite their age or class - argument.' all over again.

Having stated the above, I expect this thread to start getting very busy and heated. I'm off to watch a bit of telly now.

[Walshy]

As I said, I'm not bothered too much either way, but it just seems that sometimes at Anglesey, you would get say 15 cars in the Post '86 race and 6 or 7 in the Pre '87 race. This could be evened out a little better......

[dhart]

Originally posted by John Wilkinson
'

Whats wrong with the current show?

Well to be honest John its ****,too many races have been won by a large margin,12/14 cars is not a good grid, and i know at least 4 wont be there next season,sure others may come in,but the "class a" race looks more stable.

DO NOT MESS WITH SOMETHING THAT HAS WORKed WELL FOR YEARS AND IS NOT BROKEN.

It is broke, it used to be a mixed grid but was"fixed" into two smaller races,poor grids mean less clout with the organisers a combined grid would look mega,and we could find ourselves being invited to bigger meetings as we could guarantee 30 plus entries .

I own 3 cars eligible for pre 87 so most would think a mixed grid wouldnt suit me,but i relish the chance of beating the newer cars in a race worth winning, making the split pre 90 would at least be a start.

It was meddelers that changed it from a full mixed grid in the first place.

[MikeM]

Dave, it's 11 years since pre 87 was introduced and it's worked well for much of that time. It's only 5 years since the class was regularly running reserves and post 86 was struggling for entries. Since then there has been doubt about the class future every winter (Zetec/Kent etc), people have moved away and numbers dropped.

I still believe pre 87 is a good break and should be encouraged, getting numbers back up and great racing provided.

From comments I have heard (spectators and marshals) I don't believe too many people think this years pre 87 racing has been that shabby. It's not that broken IMHO.

[Garry Holmes]

IMO the class structure should be same nationwide, that used to be the great thing about FF1600, watching the top national boys up against the locals. The Eccleston Bros, Richard Dean & Don Hardman in the SOM giving the like os Jason Elliot & Paul Warwick a run for their money. Sometimes the works guys would be out in 2 or 3 races when that Esso or British championships were on the bill. I know we can't go back to that but one of the great plusses of FF1600 is you can buy a car and race anywhere, in several championships both locally & nationally - if you had something like a stock hatch you couldn't. From a marshal / spectator point of view FF1600 is the best - I don't think there is anything else like it, and doubt in this single make world there will ever be anything else like it. I'll leave class splits upto those upstairs, I don't care personally, but please give us full grids, because we know it'll be great racing. It will be a very sad day if FF1600 dies.

[dhart]

Mike , ive a trophy for winning the pre87 class race in 89! thats more than 11 years ago!!
The problem with pre 87 is that it is losing cars to historic,classic,sprinting whilst post 87 is gaining cars from the zetec conversions and even new kent cars,therefore the logical thing to me is to "nick" some of the class A cars(pre 90)and give the pre race a more respectable grid, hopefully before the sprinting lads cotton onto the fact that a pre 90 car at the moment has little value,it wont effect the front of the grid short term,Bob Wyke finished second in an 83 car in the super classic race in front of clegg,bailey etc, and Bibby took his 84 to third in the oulton som race last year!! Chisnall did a time good enough for the second row of the post race this year! The cars are capable of competing with pre 90 cars.
I can understand the resistance to a fully mixed grid but not encouraging a pre 90 split doesnt make sense,if the grid is not swelled it may be forced to combine anyway, pre-empt it and avoid losing it IMHO.

The pre 87 races have not given dices of any more than 2 /3 cars at a time,sorry but thats not great racing.

Pre 87 WAS a good break but moving it up to pre 90 is a must.I would love to see the pre race grid improve,no ones entered more cars in it than me!

No one seems to have any good reason not too,and my memory must be going because i dont remember over subscribed pre87 grids,as good as they where!!LOL

[jminsh]

Just an idea here Guys but with the extra race on the 31st job for each class could it not be trialed as an alltogether heat and final depending on numbers as i think Dhart has suggested before say fastest six lap times out of the 2 post and pre champ races go straight to the final and all the rest of the 2 classes fight it out for the remaining grid slots.
I am damn sure Moose would have loved to see 2 full grid races and with the chance of maybe a pre 87 car taking the spoils.
Just a thought but sounds fun doesn't it.

[diz]

Good idea ............... BUT .......................
Who will be first to say
"if I'm not in the top 6 and have to do a qualifier and then make it through to the final, that means I'm having to do a third race on the day? I'll have more time on the engine, tyre wear, fuel etc. etc."
Believe me Jase, there will be some.

[Ian Sowman]

No one is making them enter the free race(s), surely?

[jminsh]

Come on in Moose's name lets have abreak from the norm bit like the festival used to be

[diz]

No but they'll think they are meant to do them.
As it happens, BRSCC are entering everybody from the championship races automatically. It is entirely up to the drivers if they take up the offer of a free race.

[Ian Sowman]

Out of interest, is there some championship that is not appearing that was due to be?

[diz]

Originally posted by Ian Sowman
Out of interest, is there some championship that is not appearing that was due to be?

I think it was some kind of Hysterical Saloon thing, but they didn't even know they were at this meeting in the first place.

[Walshy]

You still up Mr Diz????????

[diz]

No

[Walshy]

Didn't think so.

I think you have a program that drums up random responses to Posts just to get you away from being a Veteran.

Oh well. Only another 1000 posts to go...........LOL

[diz]

I could always lower my sights and go for 'moderator'

[Walshy]

OUCH...........

You trying to get thrown off altogether?

Your gonna have to nick some more toys just to throw them out now.

[StephenRae]

Originally posted by jminsh
Just an idea here Guys but with the extra race on the 31st job for each class could it not be trialed as an alltogether heat and final depending on numbers as i think Dhart has suggested before say fastest six lap times out of the 2 post and pre champ races go straight to the final and all the rest of the 2 classes fight it out for the remaining grid slots.
I am damn sure Moose would have loved to see 2 full grid races and with the chance of maybe a pre 87 car taking the spoils.
Just a thought but sounds fun doesn't it.

I agree completely...We all waste time mulling over what could or couldn't be changed for the better. This is a real opportunity to do something different.
Whether the grid is drawn at random or run as Jason suggests this is the time for some positive action..make the Moose trophy race 2004 one to remember.

[MikeM]

Steve, it's being worked on - requests made to BRSCC. Fingers crossed!