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16 Dec 2004, 19:18 (Ref:1181305) | #1 | |
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Honda, BMW and Mercedes -2.4's for 2006
Honda and BMW have decided not to take legal action against the FIA,which leaves just Mercedes holding out for V10's.Read at www.grandprix.com
Last edited by Marbot; 16 Dec 2004 at 19:20. |
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16 Dec 2004, 19:27 (Ref:1181317) | #2 | ||
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Interesting, I read the same story today on a German F1-Newssite. Only it was the other way round, Mercedes pulling back and BMW and Honda sticking.
What is the truth now? |
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16 Dec 2004, 19:29 (Ref:1181318) | #3 | |
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Autosport reports Mercedes have dropped their arbitration plans too.
So it seems to have all been much of a fuss about nothing. |
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16 Dec 2004, 19:34 (Ref:1181319) | #4 | ||
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single engine spec - I think F1 suffers cos of that, sure set a 2.4 limit but let all 4 cycle engine configs be run, V6, V8, V10, V12 etc, let boxers in too after all running a flat 8 could lower the cars CofG leaving the exhausts to exit centrally.
F1 used to be all about innovation and Walrus aside we seem to have a bunch of identical racecars. |
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16 Dec 2004, 19:51 (Ref:1181336) | #5 | ||
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16 Dec 2004, 22:25 (Ref:1181429) | #6 | ||
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Acording to Autosport.com Honda and BMW have decided to join Mercedes and stop arbitration.
So 2.4l are going to happen. I must admit I am surprised they have all agreed. I wonder how that happened? Admin note: Title changed to reflect that Last edited by Adam43; 16 Dec 2004 at 22:26. |
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17 Dec 2004, 00:40 (Ref:1181505) | #7 | ||
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Grandprix.com says that as no one is talking about it then it was probably a bloody meeting. i.e-if it was all polite they would have pres conferences about it...
Maybe they have a point,maybe not. In any case it's obvious some consessions were made by somebody-allmost certainly max Does it make much difference? Not alot really.It just adds to the status quo (instead of f1 making the huge changes nessesary,it's going along with maxes constant ,allmost pointless little rule changes) |
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17 Dec 2004, 10:36 (Ref:1181732) | #8 | ||
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NOOOOooo!
I don't want to lose the V-10 sound! Weve lost nearly everything else I love from F1 : Sparks, Slicks, overtaking and now the classic V10 wail... |
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17 Dec 2004, 10:44 (Ref:1181738) | #9 | |
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"The classic V10" only dates back to 1989.
F1 has a long history without them. |
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17 Dec 2004, 10:53 (Ref:1181743) | #10 | ||
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Reading the reports it looks like a financial decision.
If the teams had gone to arbitration they would have been faced with the cost of continual development and testing of V10 engines and the design, build, development and test costs of building 2.4 V8's - should the case go against them. There may of course have been some FIA concessions that will become apparant at a later date. In anyevent the quote from BMW (on the legal action) is surely one Max will want framed on his wall. "That would not be in the interests of the sport, whose future we aim to strengthen. With this decision we want to contribute to a united position of the engine manufacturers in Formula 1." Last edited by Super Tourer; 17 Dec 2004 at 10:53. |
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17 Dec 2004, 14:46 (Ref:1181913) | #11 | |||
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17 Dec 2004, 15:14 (Ref:1181924) | #12 | |||
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If it had been the case that legal wrangling dragged on throughout 2005 making it a late verdict on whether it was either V8 or V10 for 2006, it would have required full time development on both. Now 2006 is a known format the engineers can work their programs accordingly. However, I agree there may be more to it than meets the eye, 'presenting a united front for the good of the sport' has never been that high on the agenda recently. Indeed, BMW and Honda were still sabre rattling up until fairly recently claiming they 'may pull out' if V8's were introduced. Maybe in the fullness of time it will become clearer. Perhaps it is as simple as an overall cost saving , added to which the potential legal costs could be vast. (bearing in mind that the Williams cost over the Button CRB case were £500K alone) Last edited by Super Tourer; 17 Dec 2004 at 15:22. |
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17 Dec 2004, 15:33 (Ref:1181930) | #13 | ||
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The final stepped development usually happens with 2 max 3 races to go. Unless they run a parallel and totally different and revollutionary V10 programme for next. And yes, the "good of the sport" part stinks on ice.
The costs isn't an issue. They do have a budget, and they will spend it no matter how and ask for more. What I actually think is more logical, is that all of the aforementioned engine manufacturers think that they will guess better and get an edge over the others as a result of those rule changes. Good of sport, cost cutting... pfft. |
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17 Dec 2004, 17:06 (Ref:1181997) | #14 | |
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Peace and common sense seem to be breaking out across the sport.
Don't be surprised if this agreement goes along with a Bernie deal to increase revenue distribution to the teams. |
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17 Dec 2004, 17:14 (Ref:1182004) | #15 | |
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Yes,he could give $400 million to Minardi,down to 2 cents for Ferrari.
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20 Dec 2004, 12:50 (Ref:1183888) | #16 | |||
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V10's are actually the most characterless engines ever! It's only pure revs that give them any feeling (except for the awsome wailing/screaming exaust of the 99/-01? maclarens) V8's can be the best engine sound ever made if done just right.I don't think we'll get that lucky though. High reving 8's tend to lose alot of character as revs go way up....or thats' how it was years back in f1. Still we might get lucky,it is uncharted waters after all,the last f1 V8 engines maxed out at about 15500 rpm |
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20 Dec 2004, 18:58 (Ref:1184230) | #17 | ||
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Can't help wondering if Renault's wide angle concept would work better as an V8.
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20 Dec 2004, 19:07 (Ref:1184241) | #18 | ||
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20 Dec 2004, 20:47 (Ref:1184332) | #19 | |||
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And the innovation? Actually I probably should have censored "innovation" |
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20 Dec 2004, 21:55 (Ref:1184407) | #20 | |
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Innovation costs money, they're trying to cut costs.
Anyway, the teams and engine-manufacturers have agreed the rules now, so it's a moot point. |
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21 Dec 2004, 02:20 (Ref:1184570) | #21 | |
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I wonder which teams will take the V10 route,certainly i think Minardi would and they will be spoilt for choice as all the engine manufacturers will be falling over themselves to sell there unwanted V10's,perhaps a Minardi-Ferrari for 2006.
By the way there are more restrictive regulations as regards engines for 2006,such as a limit to cylinder bore,minimum weight and so on. |
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21 Dec 2004, 05:34 (Ref:1184630) | #22 | ||
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The actual build costs between a v8 & a v10 at the top end of motorsport is not very different ,really all the costs involved are in the research & development of both units & the economy of scale in the production of the units & the life attained between rebuilds of the engines in service.
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