DC does it again... - Page 2

Tristan · 16 Jul 2001, 12:58 (Ref:117750)

Quite simply, DC cut Trulli up, JT had nowhere to go and DC ran into him. Yes it was a racing incident, yes it was an ACCIDENT, but DC thew HIS WDC away. Agian.

Alan Jones · 16 Jul 2001, 13:05 (Ref:117754)

Well, I thought it looked like a run of the mill racing incident and leave it at that. After all, we want to see these guys fight for position don't we? Thought DC was a bit of a fool to mention the WDC but hey, he probably thinks that too in hindsight.

**Adam43** · 16 Jul 2001, 13:06 (Ref:117755)

Quote:

Originally posted by Kenny W.

According to the ITV site which normally gives valid quotes,

You must be watching a different channel!

KC · 16 Jul 2001, 15:14 (Ref:117796)

I find utterly hilarious that so many are so quick to jump on DC for his words. I do not agree that Trulli should give way, nor do I agree that anyone hsould give way. However, I have heard these same exact words from Herr Schumacher after the 2000 British GP after being held up for half a race behind Villeneueve. I guess it is OK for MS to expect free and clear passage, but no one else is entitled? Remove the bright red blinders and look at it honestly.

DC was on the race line which is the middle to outside of that corner. Trulli was too far inside to maintain adequate speed to overtake the McLaren. I do think that DC thought Trulli would back off to concede the corner so that he would avoid contact and was wrong in doing so. In hindsight, both drivers would probably have done something different to avoid both crashing out. I think it was nothing more than an unfortunate racing incident that both drivers should have avoided.

Gt_R · 16 Jul 2001, 15:49 (Ref:117805)

Hmm..the purpose i started this thread is NOT to bash a driver nor to push blame to this incident.

I believe it is perfectly a racing incident.

To stir the direction of the post back.

What i want to point out for discussion is as follows:
1) DC's attitude in both Monaco AND British GP that non-WDC 1st place competitors should move out of his way. That because trulli is not contending for the WDC, he should give way to DC. Is this reasonable, logical, and acceptable?

2) When Michael said something wrong (or even correct ones), tens of threads condemning the same thing jumped into this forum at the same time almost immediately (look at his comments after Austria) Those who started it claimed they are fair and just and moral (not Anti-Schueys). Yet when DC said something which is way out of sportsmanship, and is clearly the wrong attitude, no one point it out...where have those who claimed to be "standing for sportsmanship, not against Michael" gone to?

And let's just really restrict this to DC and his attitude...we really do not need to have all threads being changed into Anti-Schuey posts.

*MICHAEL IS FROM NOW BANNED FROM THIS CHANNEL*

eatapc · 16 Jul 2001, 16:26 (Ref:117821)

Quote:

Originally posted by KC
DC was on the race line which is the middle to outside of that corner. Trulli was too far inside to maintain adequate speed to overtake the McLaren.

Respectfully disagree. I've just looked at my tape of the race (overhead angle), and I see that Trulli followed Schumacher's racing line into the corner, and was directly behind Mika (and precisely alongside DC) when contact was made. MS was on the painted strip at the far inside throughout the corner: How was it that he managed to gain on everyone behind him if the best line was "on the middle to outside?" Furthermore, if Trulli had really taken a bad line, then DC could have stayed to the middle (where he entered the corner) and easily passed Trulli at the next turn. As to the rest of your post, I agree with GT R. You can't let DC off the hook by changing the subject to Schummacher. No red blinders here. What color are yours?

KC · 16 Jul 2001, 18:03 (Ref:117851)

No blinders. MS and MH maintained a defensive posture because of the amount of traffic just behind them. Had the track been clear the drivers all take the long, high momentum route around the corner.

My remark about blinders is probably out of line, but I do think DC and many other drivers get an unfair shake from many for doing and saying the exact same words that MS is held in high regard for.

We all have our favorites, but I have no problem with calling out DC or JV for doing something stupid, many other fans feel fair to justify any action as fair and proper as long as their driver wins out.

eatapc · 16 Jul 2001, 18:39 (Ref:117875)

Quote:

Originally posted by KC
MS and MH maintained a defensive posture because of the amount of traffic just behind them. Had the track been clear the drivers all take the long, high momentum route around the corner.

We may have to agree to disagree on this, but my response is twofold:
1) If MS and MH were maintaining a defensive posture on the inside, what's wrong with Trulli maintaining the same line immediately behind them? Trulli and DC were alongside each other well before the corner; in fact, they were side by side for over a hundred meters prior to the contact. The inside line was the only one available to Trulli, and he took it, leaving the entire rest of the track open to DC, who instead chose to barge into Trulli.
2)The "high momentum route" may not be the best one on the first lap, seeing as how the cars are coming off a standing start and don't have the high momentum they'd normally have at this corner. On the first lap they come into the braking zone at much lower speeds than during the race -- hence the advantage of the inside line.

Guy Goddard · 16 Jul 2001, 19:10 (Ref:117890)

I said back in April DC would not be world champion because he does not have the right ingredents to be the best and Silverstone demonstrated this. With Mika back I do wonder if he will end up above DC in the championship overall underlining my point.

**Peter Mallett** · 17 Jul 2001, 02:25 (Ref:118061)

I may be able to shed a llittle light on the road position question.

From my limited experience (obviously not in an F1 car) Copse is virtually flat out (as it used to be) and during the race the cars take the outside line on entry and clip the apex reasonably late and then run wide to the exit before pulling over to the right before heading into Maggots.

However on the first lap there is very little difference in the lines because the cars are jostling for position and not fully up to speed. Under those circunmstances the inside or shortest line is the quickest.

That is why MS was on that line and it is also why CD who was taking a longer line, struggeld to maintain momentum over Trulli.

It was a racing accident and as with any driver who thinks that championship position is a given for passing, I believe DC was wrong to make those statements.

mac · 17 Jul 2001, 06:59 (Ref:118145)

Alright I've just about had a gutful of DC. These are some quotes of his from f1-live.com.

"...looking at the damage to my car Jarno's front wheel only was touching along my bodywork and I think we as drivers know the type of corner you have there and it opens out on the exit. So with having track position I was in front of him then there is absolutely no reason to expect that I should lift in that situation."

DC, wake up to youself and look at the replay. You were perfectly side by side entering the corner, and even at the apex (looking at the above photo). The reason Trulli hit the rear half of your car is because you squeezed the **** out of him and left him nowhere to go. Consequently Trulli slowed to try and get out of it.

"Two cars don't go round a corner with a bit of give and take and I made it quite clear when we entered the corner that I wasn't going to lift, and he should know that and there should be time to react."

How exactly did you make it clear you weren't going to lift? I didn't know you could do mental telepathy. Why should Trulli lift? You're side by side, and he's on the inside. Because you're (supposedly) fighting for a championship?

"There was enough of the curb on the inside that is flat that he could have turned in if he felt that I was squeezing him."

If it is such a fast and flowing corner, why couldn't you have given him more room? Have a look at the replay or the above picture. Mmmm, Trulli didn't leave you much room - look at all that empty track to your left.

"So I think that irrespective of what it looks like from the outside, if you are a racing driver and you sit in the car, you know the corner, you know the circumstance, you know that it is possible to get two cars through there, but it will involve both giving a bit of room"

If both have to give some room, I didn't notice you doing your part.

"I'd just remind you again I did have track position, I was half a car length in front.”

Bull**** you had track position. Where Jarno physically hit you does not count as evidence. You were not half a car length in front when you entered the corner. It was only when you forced Trulli to get out of it (from the apex to the point of impact) that you were half a car length in front.

I've had a gutful of DC and McLaren. They don't make mistakes. Only the people around them do. Just ask them.

angst · 17 Jul 2001, 10:39 (Ref:118211)

I have to say that my opinion on this is that DC has nothing to complain about. I think it was his error. Trulli shouldn't be expected to back down, he had the line and DC gave him no room. It was however a misjudgement and says more about Trulli's sportsmanship than anything else. DC on this occasion is wrong.
Having said all that I can't believe some of the anti-DC sentiment poured out here, particularly from TGF supporters. Seems to me that anybody who dares to criticise TGF (The Great Fraud?) is pilloried mercilessly by sections of this forum.
DC was wrong but, Jeez you'd think he'd barged his only rival for the WDC off the circuit or some such thing, the reaction that he's getting here.

**Peter Mallett** · 17 Jul 2001, 10:51 (Ref:118217)

I don't have a major problem with what he said about the incident. Its the next bit about not being in the race for the WDC. To me it doesn't matter who it is, they're all allowed to race and until they've actually got that trophy in their hands they are all equal.

I have never really been impressed by DC but I had hoped this year he would put something together. But no.

Frankly I can't wait until Button, Raikonnen, Heidfield and the others that are up and coming get their chance and these egocentric prima donnas go play golf or whatever it is they want to do.

mac · 18 Jul 2001, 00:14 (Ref:118592)

Let me just say, I am not anti-anybody or pro-anybody. I'm just sick of Coulthard's and McLaren's attitude.

Raoul Duke · 18 Jul 2001, 19:36 (Ref:118935)

Quote:

Originally posted by angst
I can't believe some of the anti-DC sentiment poured out here, particularly from TGF supporters. Seems to me that anybody who dares to criticise TGF (The Great Fraud?) is pilloried mercilessly by sections of this forum.
DC was wrong but, Jeez you'd think he'd barged his only rival for the WDC off the circuit or some such thing, the reaction that he's getting here.

Angst, you've taken the words right out of my mouth.

Gt_R · 18 Jul 2001, 22:23 (Ref:118978)

angst...but doesnt that work the other way round too? That pro-schueys are branded ignorant youngs who know nothing about racing? That the driver they like is even more being bashed around and stuffs? Why complain about such stuffs when anti-schueys are even "stranger" with the things they say???

Its a fact that Anti-Schuey feelings is the strongest in this forum, so if you can live with that, then i see no reason why you cant live with anti-DC...

By the way, i have said before that i do not want this thread to be another pathetic Anti-Schuey attempt...all posts here seem to have the tendency to stray into this direction strangely....be it Anti-DC, anti JPM, anti Marques...Neither is this an Anti-DC thread...at least not viewewd by me.I rarely (not never though

) criticise a driver without a proper issue to discuss, and bash a driver for no good reason or some reasons which happened so many years ago
We are now discussing the attitude of DC regarding non-WDC competitors not allowed to race DC the great... Michael or not...its wrong, plain silly and arrogant.

Sodemo · 18 Jul 2001, 23:34 (Ref:118993)

I think its quite amusing the way ITV have adopted DC as their own boy, the "driver they back". I'm not sure if any of the country is actually behind DC, as I know i'm not - maybe its just me.
I'm actually rooting for anyone except, Mika, M Schu and DC.
I'm a particular fan of Montoya and I want to see him do well.

PS did you see the crowd when Montoya overtook M Schu. I was't sure if they were cheering cus Monty had passed TGF or simply because they saw a passing manoover!

eatapc · 18 Jul 2001, 23:37 (Ref:118994)

Words of wisdom from one who forgets to live by them all too often: Self-serving denials are almost always more troubling than the deeds that prompt them; the words "I'm sorry" will put an end to 90% of the arguments that one can get into in life. If DC had said "sorry," he would have had a lot of sympathy, and I bet 90% of the people on this forum would have been on his side. More importantly, he should have said it not just to curry favor, but because Trulli deserved to hear it.

Sodemo · 19 Jul 2001, 00:17 (Ref:119009)

If anyone is interested, the opening lap of the British GP from Bernie-vision is on this website.

There is a clip with the on-board cam of DC and a slightly diff replay angle.

http://formulaone.iscool.net/

mac · 19 Jul 2001, 01:07 (Ref:119022)

Eatapc - you're exactly right. If DC had got out of his car and said, "I'm sorry, I made a mistake," I would have been the first to applaud him. This is the exact same reason I'm not a huge fan of Paul Tracy in CART. Because no matter what happens, he is perfect and it is always the other guy making the mistake. I know they have huge egos, but a little humility goes a long way.

I don't know if anyone saw the Cleveland CART race, and the incident in the pitlane where Bruno Junqueira smashed into the back of Christian Fittipaldi. I was very impressed in Bruno for saying that he made a bad mistake and he was sorry. If that was Paul Tracy or David Coulthard, I would not be surprised if they got out screaming, "I can't believe Christian would do that!! He just stomped on the brakes and left me nowhere to go!!"