2006 f3 euro/ uk/ etc series??

[strider]

That's also true. For some reason the LMES meetings haven't caught on with the public yet. Next year, though, BF3 will be running with FIA GTs at Silverstone, Spa (24 hours) and Imola, and I would expect bigger crowds there.

[bella]

lmes is a bit too much of a specialised sport, i mean they say bf3 is bad for that but there's a very specific type of person who wants to watch 4 (or is it 6?) hours worth of a single race. the cars are spectacular, but they're at their best in qualifying. the racing's too much like strategy for the casual fan. fia gt races are a lot shorter?

i'm not decided on whether linking up with the 24 hour race is a good idea yet. granted it might have been the only way of getting the f3 cars to spa, but being pushed under the carpet and being put right at the end or right at the beginning of proceedings is hardly dignified. think the old girl deserves a bit better than that

pau will be very interesting. does anyone have any vague crowd figures for that?

[SALEEN S7R]

LMES races are 1000km or 6 hours, whichever comes first, normally races are 5 hours in length or so. FIA GT races are 500km races or 3 hours maximum, whichever comes first, races are generally around the 2hr 30 minute mark. As for the LMES races taking a very specific type of person to sit (or walk) around for 5 hours whilst watching a race, to a extent I would agree with that. However, the LMES is getting bigger crowds every year, and will continue to do so when the manufacturers come on board next year.

The ALMS and FIA GT championships are fine examples of what good sportscar racing series can get crowd attendance wise, each getting crowds of 40,000-60,000 on a regular basis and signifcantly more, up to 100,000 for the Spa 24hrs and 175,000 for Sebring. The LMES will eventually get to this kind of level too, so too therefore will the other series that are supporting the series. IMO it would be good for British F3 to support the Spa 24hrs, for both series, yes the British F3 would probably run at a strange time but you could virtually guarntee crowds of 50,000+. Not a bad figure by any series standards. IMO.

[bella]

i doubt you could gurantee crowds that size. for starters at 24 hour events i hear most people are still getting drunk while support races are on, and getting drunk/passed out under a tree after the race.

i'd say there was about 20 spectators for the saturday at lmes nurburgring. it's vastly overpriced in every country it's in. i've never felt it's sro's priority to get a crowd in.

[SALEEN S7R]

It is true that some 24 hour events do have a lot of drunkeness (mainly the Nurburgring 24hrs), but its a small minority that generally do this and by no means the majority of fans. Yes everyone has a drink during the race, and after, but the majority are still relativly sober and most are watching the racing whilst they are drinking.

I still think that if you ran the F3 races on the Saturday before the start of the Spa 24 hours when everyone is sober you would still get a crowd in excess of 50,000. Still, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this.

[bella]

yeah, by the same idea you can say that there were 80,000 people watching the f3 euroseries at the norisring, when i'd say at least 50,000 of those were pottering around the paddocks and another 2,000 were snoozing by the lake. it just doesn't work like that.

i'd be surprised if they didn't stick the races on practice days and at ungodly o'clock before the main race. you really need to rethink your crowd number assumptions because they're considerably off the mark in a number of cases.

[TheNewBob]

Sportscar racing has this stigma to shake off that it's a "specialised" sport just because it lasts for a long time. I attended the Silverstone LMES weekend and, frankly, all the single seater action bored the pants off me. I was hooked for the entire 6 hours of LMES. Yes the weather played it's part - but some of the action this year in ALMS and LMES has been incredible (Laguna Seca for example). You just have to know where to look (mainly because the incredible noises mean it's impossible to hear the commentators) - although the LMES is very, very poorly promoted indeed. Hence it's lack of supporters at the events themselves. If nobody knows a series is there, then they won't know to visit it, will they... Which could well be part of the reason for the worry of BF3 and BGT not getting 10,000 spectators.

Also, whats this about it being overpriced? During the whole weekend at Silverstone I didnt even spend £50 - that included entry price, camping for the weekend and food and drink. If that's not value for money for 3 days, for spectators at least, then I really want some of what your smoking!

For my views in this post I've already taken into account that I'm generally biased towards sportscar racing than single seaters, so no need to remind me of that...

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by bella

you really need to rethink your crowd number assumptions because they're considerably off the mark in a number of cases.

Not assumptions Bella, just facts in the vast majority of cases. Still, there is no point in myself contributing further to this thread so I will not comment further.

[Nick49]

Despite the fact that this thread seems to have got off topic somewhat I thought I would put my pennys worth in regarding crowd sizes. When I used to watch the Group C Sportscar races the circuits seemed packed. This just doesn't seem the case now with either the FIA GT or LMES. I can't believe it is just a case of being too specialized for the casual fan but more the case that Formula One really knows how to sell itself and no other category (except DTM) does.

I really enjoy sportscar racing but when is it ever promoted properly. Jo Public have heard of the Le Mans 24 Hours but what else? I don't believe its the cost of entrance as the Silverstone LMES race was only £15 (advance) for a whole days racing. Compare that to Football. Shame about the weather.

[bella]

lmes is about 35 euros to get in at spa (for girls it's free), it was 30 euros at nurburgring (which was the same as the dtm..), all of which are, if you're trying to get people through the gate, too expensive. to the germans credit, they do tend to do family ticket deals, but it's just not good enough if you're interested in getting people to see the sport.

i think the most i paid for an on the gate ticket was at hockenheim, for a grandstand seat for sunday at the dtm with paddock access was 40euros. madness. so cheap for what you get to see. but the expensive tickets are the first ones to sell out...

edit : worth adding that the dtm doesn't need to encourage people to go, but they still do by offering low ticket prices.

[TheNewBob]

I think the only form of motorsport not worth the asking price is Formula 1. I'm not sure what 30 or 40 euro's relates to because I only know British money, but I wouldn't think twice about parting with £30 for a whole day of motorsport. You pay at least £40 for a 90-minute football match, for which you have to sit down in one place the whole time. The LMES single day entrance fee of £15... you get an entire day, lasting from 8am until 10pm (was my first taste of racing into the night - an incredible experience! never understood the attraction until I saw it for myself), lots of different action, and you can walk about the whole place - paddock access was free. F1's an absolute rip-off, but I think motorsport in general has cheap asking prices.

But I agree that sportscars needs more promotion - spectator numbers do suffer. LMES advertising and promotion is laughable, it's terrible, truly awful.

Anyways, this is all highly off-topic, so think I've said all I need to on that one...

[strider]

Blimey, you turn your turn your back to do a bit of work, then return to find the debate's been rolling along in fine style!

Originally Posted by bella

i'm not decided on whether linking up with the 24 hour race is a good idea yet. granted it might have been the only way of getting the f3 cars to spa, but being pushed under the carpet and being put right at the end or right at the beginning of proceedings is hardly dignified. think the old girl deserves a bit better than that

I 'd say BF3 will definitely be before the 24 hour race. I've never been to that one, but everyone says it's fantastic and, if it's anything like Le Mans, the build-up starts early in the week, so racing on the Friday and Saturday should be fine. It will be good even to race there; this year it was abandoned as you will remember.

pau will be very interesting. does anyone have any vague crowd figures for that?

No, but it's definitely a big meeting and something of a coup for BF3 to be there. It's probably the meeting I'm most looking forward to next year. That weekend has special significance in France, much as Easter does over here.

[jondownunder]

Originally Posted by Gaz

Combe is the only meeting that attracts the punters and even that seemed well down on numbers this year over past seasons.

I'd certainly agree with that. Had no problems getting a good vantage point this year compared to 2004.

[Suze]

where'd you go? never have any problems....wander along and find a spot

[schiattarella]

wicked thanks for the help :]

[Paul V]

Originally Posted by jondownunder

I'd certainly agree with that. Had no problems getting a good vantage point this year compared to 2004.

I don't suppose the clash with the Goodwood FoS helped.

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Not assumptions Bella, just facts in the vast majority of cases. Still, there is no point in myself contributing further to this thread so I will not comment further.

I love F3 myslef, but I would doubt whether 10,000 people pay to get in during the entire year, let alone at one event.

[bella]

exactly. i think it's a terrible shame that there's some future big names racing in a series like this, and barely 10,000 people see them race over the entire season accumilated, let alone for a single event.

[kipper]

It is a pity that the F3s don't get a bigger crowd, given the fact that you are watching some stars of the future, the racing is generally good and there is a good mix of support races. Also, the prices are pretty good value when the level of motorsport is taken into account.

[bella]

i'm not sure about the prices being good value. i think the germans and the euroseries get far far better value for money spectator wise. while we see the gt's (there's not many who go for both, it's usually one or the other), they see dtm, we see fpa, they see fbmw... it's completely different.

where we are at the moment with f3/gt is that people need to be encouraged along, and the way to do that is not to have adverts saying "great value for money considering who you're going to watch (aside from the kids on a free ticket because daddy thinks it keeps them off the streets)", it's "tickets for £20, includes entrance for 4 kids and 2 adults" and "buy a ticket for f3/gt, get into 750mc next weekend for free" or something. you need to be giving people something for free.

sad but true. we want everything but we don't want to pay for it. i'll happily pay to get into a dtm weekend because it is truly spectacular. i'd not pay for f3/gt or btcc regardless of who's racing. it's just not the same league.