Hiring out you car! - Page 2

pmoloney · 17 Nov 2005, 16:15 (Ref:1463286)

All interesting comments and views on this subject. I guess it's always going to be tough deciding who pays for what without making the package unattractive. I like th eidea of data logging..particularly on revs so that driver error can be identified. I'm not sure how you could prevent a driver carrying on when a warning light comes on though...unless you add that to the data logging??

Anyway..this has all come about seeing as I've purchased another car and now have two E30 325s that can run in the Kumho BMWs. Theory is that there are drivers out there that might want one or two drives and this is where I think I'd be best off offering the car.... one for a debate with myself over christmas I think!!

RickP:Clio51 · 17 Nov 2005, 17:19 (Ref:1463316)

£10k plus insurance cover for £120k (about £4k depending on the excess)? Hmmmmmm for 2 hours in Britcar?

Or 2 hours in a GT3 RSR in the LMES including insurance?

Might not get a huge number of takers... ;-)

**dtype38** · 17 Nov 2005, 22:02 (Ref:1463532)

For your "spare car" how about advertising it for sale on a "support and buy back" contract. This would involve you offering yor car for sale at a realistic market price, but with a guarenteed buy-back at any time the buyer wanted to end the deal. You would agree to support the car for a race by race fee, and effect any repairs etc, at the expense of the driver for the duration of the deal, and agree to buy the car back (less a small depreciation fee) at any time. The only stipulation would be that the car had to be returned to, within reason, the original working order before the buy-back could take effect. This should appeal to a driver who has the money for a car, but not the time to prepare and run it. It would also mean that it was owned by them while they were racing it and if they broke it and chose not to pay for the repairs, then they would keep it and you wouldn't be out of pocket.

Just a thought :-)

SpawnyWhippet · 18 Nov 2005, 05:33 (Ref:1463812)

Excellent plan, DType, wish that had been around when I was racing over there. The engineer who used to run me supplied most of my cars, but not on sale or return.

pmoloney · 18 Nov 2005, 09:28 (Ref:1463901)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtype38

For your "spare car" how about advertising it for sale on a "support and buy back" contract. This would involve you offering yor car for sale at a realistic market price, but with a guarenteed buy-back at any time the buyer wanted to end the deal. You would agree to support the car for a race by race fee, and effect any repairs etc, at the expense of the driver for the duration of the deal, and agree to buy the car back (less a small depreciation fee) at any time. The only stipulation would be that the car had to be returned to, within reason, the original working order before the buy-back could take effect. This should appeal to a driver who has the money for a car, but not the time to prepare and run it. It would also mean that it was owned by them while they were racing it and if they broke it and chose not to pay for the repairs, then they would keep it and you wouldn't be out of pocket.

Just a thought :-)

That sounds like a pretty good plan... I guess the skill will be in ensuring the wording of a buy back or similar would have to be spot on. Its certainly worth considering...thanks.

topwelshman · 19 Nov 2005, 08:36 (Ref:1464769)

Paul, there are alot of pit falls here mate that aren't being aired, i'll send you an email mate.

**dtype38** · 19 Nov 2005, 08:54 (Ref:1464779)

TWM... unless the pit falls are to do with specific cars/places/people/regulations etc., it would be interesting to know what a few of them are. Any chance of posting them as well?

topwelshman · 20 Nov 2005, 16:36 (Ref:1465679)

Most of them are legal unfortunately! Very boring

schomosport · 20 Nov 2005, 20:11 (Ref:1465844)

And in our litigation obsessed age what about the prospects of getting your pants sued off when the hirer hurts himself in a shunt and blames your car preparation? You can get him to sign all the waivers you like, doubt they would stand up in court.

pmoloney · 20 Nov 2005, 20:20 (Ref:1465849)

yeah that's always a concern....look at Frank Williams in court after Senna's crash!

**dtype38** · 20 Nov 2005, 22:01 (Ref:1465933)

Presumably it would be the same warning/disclaimer preventing me from bringing legal action against the owners/organisers/stewards/uncle Tom Cobbly and all every time I venture within wheel turning distance of a race track. Or are they all not worth the paper they're written on?

As for the Frank/Ayrton thing, I personally feel that was all done for other than legal reasons.

Bob Pearson · 21 Nov 2005, 10:35 (Ref:1466322)

What a mine field!! There are, I reckon, several different scenarios here. I think, and I repeat think cos someone is bound to disagree here, that it is like this:

If you hire a car to a team/driver and have nothing further to do with it than you continue to own it and take money only when they use it, then, shortly after they have used it for the first time then it's safety to use becomes their responsibility, not the owners.
If you run a driver in a car which either you or the driver owns then it's safety for use is always your responsibility (barring mid event collisions causing damage that affected the cars safety)
In the Senna/Williams issue or any similar situation it is clouded largely by the fact that the driver would in some way or another be classed as an employee and so come under totally different sets of laws. ( to say nothing of the fact that those laws vary from country to country)

**dtype38** · 21 Nov 2005, 13:08 (Ref:1466468)

That's partly why I suggested the sell/buyback option, so that the only possible comeback on the original owner would be the "fit for pupose" clause of the original contract, plus the quality of any ongoing service work. I suppose the key here would be to tie the buyer to you as having the guarenteed buyback rights at a guarenteed price, but at the same time, opening the support/service/repair part to competitive third parties subject to a licence fee from the original owner.

Yeh, bit complicated really. I was going to suggest taking advice from an expert... but then experts seem to disagree about this sort of thing and anything professionally written tends to get into the realms of expensive/offputting to potential customers.

Doh!

kickstart · 21 Nov 2005, 18:10 (Ref:1466682)

As a club racer and a lawyer the advice I would give anyone renting out a car is to at least think about the possibility of getting some insurance. If something did go wrong with the car (due to the preparation etc) which led to the death or serious injury to a driver there is every chance that the owner/prepared could be sued. It is all very well to blame the system/lawyers but if the renter can no longer earn a living because of the injuries sustained what do you think he will do.

Some companies will pay employees full pay following an injury but will reserve the right to sue in the employees name to recover the salary. Also in the case of a fatal accident all bets are off. The surviving spouse will often not have the same view as the deceased.

This message is not meant to be too doom and gloom as most preparation is normally acceptable and the vast majority of accidents are not serious and are not caused by mechanical problems.