Suggest a suitable series for.....

[carsreunited]

A fellow Dolomite club member wants to go racing with a 1300 Triumph Toledo. As far as I know, they have no historic racing pedigree so I'm scratching my head as to what race series would suit his vehicle best.

Any suggestions that I can pass on to him?

The vehicle is a fresh build so he can build it to whatever regs are applicable.

Thanks in advance.

Scott

[R59]

Surely, he'd be best off in with you guys? Isn't there a small capacity class?

Rob.

[redshoes]

TSSC/TR Register have an under 2000cc class, mostly for 1500cc Spitfires. Don't know if they would allow a Toledo.

LMA Euro Saloons have 1600cc Road Saloon and 1500cc Production Modified classes. Should fit into one of those easily enough.

[graham bahr]

theres no reason why he couldn't come out with TRC, although with such as small engine in a fairly big and heavy car i cant see it being very competitive against the fiesta's and mini's in class E upto 1600 2 valve, as basicaly a rebadged dolomite there might be other options though, 1850 engine which triumph stretched to 2.0 for the TR7 so that might be an option in class D upto 2.0 2 valve, or a sprint lump in class C upto 2.0 multivalve, failing that any engine you like in class A

[Al Weyman]

CTCRC could be worth a try but IMHO the car was a dog when they were new and I really cannot see them standing a prayer against a good 1300 Mini because (a) Simple power to weight ratio and (b) Lack of parts to make the thing go. I distinctly remember (and I used to work on these things) that the gearbox was weak even on a simple road car (I seem to recollect something about a long shaft linking the clutch and transmission you had to withdraw this from the inside to change a clutch, odd idea) and where for example would you get decent ratios and a slipper diff. I would ask myself is this project really viable. Oh they are Front Wheel Drive Graham so the option of a meaty Dolomite Sprint engine would just not be on unless they may have made a rear wheel drive version, got the old grey cells thinking now and they may have in which case I take some of it back!!.

Just for the record I am not trying to dishearten anyone here bit as I ran the ModProds for years I used to have all sorts of enquires like this and although I tried to advise some insisted on learning the hard way, done a fortune, came out for two or three rounds, got disheartend and were never seen again. Eg 7 series BMW's and even 5 Series (too heavy against a 3), Austin Metros (none Turbo) etc. they just don't cut it.

[graham bahr]

sorry to contrdict you Al, but i used to own a toledo and it was definatly RWD, the triumph 1500 was the FWD car

[Al Weyman]

Yeah you are right sorry, it was the 1300/1500 that was the dog with the weird FWD gearbox arrangment they dropped that and called it a Toledo.

[graham bahr]

either way unless your going for an engine swap of some sort dont think it a good starting point for a race car

[carsreunited]

Thanks for the replies. As you say, apart from transplanting the running gear from a Sprint, its always going to be at a disadvantage. I think he has other ideas for it now so we can probably leave it there for now.

Cheers.

Scott

[graham bahr]

oh go on give us a clue what he's thinking of doing....

[R59]

Talking of transplants - isnt' there enough room to fit a Stag V8 in there? That would make it interesting!! (The Stag V8 is a nice compact engine, with lots going for it. Just a shame that the BL boys made such a hash of producing them, as they did the Dolomite Sprint engine!)

[graham bahr]

Originally Posted by racing59

Talking of transplants - isnt' there enough room to fit a Stag V8 in there? That would make it interesting!! (The Stag V8 is a nice compact engine, with lots going for it. Just a shame that the BL boys made such a hash of producing them, as they did the Dolomite Sprint engine!)

yeah, and a pair of dolly sprint heads, one should go straight on the other would need reworking to get the cam drive at its opposite end, whilst if it also had the sprints bore and stroke it would be a nice round 4 litres, with quad webers it would have a real nice rumble, mind you i think the piece of wierd bent wire they used for a crank would have to go in the bin in favour of a bespoke steel item,

arhhh if only they had built them like that in the first place, the stag would of been known for fine engineering, rather than a nice but sluggish unrealiable cruiser

[Al Weyman]

Ha Ha, you obviously have never worked on the dogs, that V8 is without doubt one of the worst engines mankind ever put breath into. The heads cannot be removed without a ruddy crowbar and wedges after removing all the studs, the single timing chain stretches after a few miles, the crank as Graham says was not up to the job the whole thing was a disaster. Fitting that thing instead of the lightweight and tried and tested Rover V8 was a decision that could have made a great car, the Stag, but no they had to do it their way and produce a pig, no wonder they are no longer making cars what a bad move.

[carsreunited]

The cost to get a Sprint head mirrored is about 6k. No-one has had the bottle, ingenuity or funds to bother.

The Toledo is staying a Toledo I believe. He may be going down the Caterham graduate route to racing.

I own a Stag as well (glutton for punishment I know and a Cerbera V8). Another club member who put a stag engine in his Sprint is in the process of putting an ajp 4.2 V8 in it partly because I was raving about how blinking fast my cerby is! That should go nicely when its done!

[graham bahr]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Ha Ha, you obviously have never worked on the dogs.

unfortunatly Al i have, along with all the 4 cyl varients, infact i still have the reamer i used to use to ream all the crud from the stud holes to enable the studs to be easily screwed back in again

[b1ackcr0w]

TR Register also feature heavily at Speed Hillclimbs, which is a very friendly way for people to being competing.

[R59]

Wasn't it Hart Racing that sorted all of the head problems out. I also seem to remember him running a 4L variant racing around the region. Quite competitive.
Al, the slag was only a dog while it had a standard un-modded 3L V8 in it. Fit a pair of Hart heads on it, and the power leaped to something worthwhile, it was then easier to maintain as the heads could then be removed easily if they needed. The real weak point was that awful quill-shaft driving the dizzy - same used on the dolly sprint.

Isn't it amazing though - Saab took that engine and made good use of it......(the Dolly)

Rob.

[carsreunited]

I have some Hart Custom Carb intakes to give me a quad weber set-up when the mood (read funds) takes me. They are a nice engine when running well. With the stag it isn't about going fast (which is good because they don't!).

[Richy_Rich]

I'm pretty sure we'd have him in the TRR/TSSC Scott. He could almost certainly have a go in the invitation class first, just to try it out like.

p.s. if I've got the right Scott, I'll be up in the new year for them tyres

[carsreunited]

Hi Richard,

Yes, you've got the right guy. You can PM me through here if you want and I'll give you my mobile number. Don't worry, they have your name on!

I did mention the possibility of invitation races to him on our own message board. He's going in a different but equally interesting direction.

Scott

[Flat Out Farr]

there is a better solution, which is already in existence. there is a guy in Feltham who has put a 2.2 twink in one from a Sunbeam Lotus, with a 5-speed getrag box;
He wants to sell it. £1000 will buy it! if that is not a result, then what is? as long as you can run it somewhere with that engine in it!

[graham bahr]

TRC class A, although i doubt it would be competitive