What are your opinions about sportscar racing???

[FMSC]

One of the main reasons why CCWS and IRL could not thrive together is they wanted to destroy each other. There was no cooperation and each just tried to steal what the other had instead of building up their own series. This is starting to happen a little more now but the have destroyed OWR in the process.

Grand Am and the France family are powerful and therefore people are wary. I do enjoy the racing when I get to see it. I agree the cars are unattractive but the racing is ok. They will never make to Le Mans and probably never should. There was a period where they changed their rules and then wanted the ACO to let them into Le Mans. A bit cheeky and they have the Daytona 24 hours to keep them busy.

I think world wide coverage of the FIA GT this year has been appauling and that can be a major reason for its popularity in this poll. My personal favourite is the LMS - I like the longer races and cars...but I would be hard pressed to find a sportscar series that I would readilly rubbish

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Main reason, sanctions used to sanction; promoters-promoted; racers-raced.

The first of the three has forgotten its proper place, and fouled the the other two.

(snip)

Racing in the US used to be about building the fastest, quickest and bestest.
Now it is about dealing with arrogant, egotistic rules makers, instead of trying to build a better car.
Bob

Bob you hit the nail right on the head with these two.

[chocmonster7]

Originally Posted by Supercar

And here they came. But isn't it brilliant how this forum has an "ignore user" feature?! All you have to do is go to that user's profile and click on "Add this guy to Your Ignore List". Works like a miracle. After clicking a couple of times this thread is now suddenly sparkling clean!

I never knew about that feature - thanks!

[chocmonster7]

Originally Posted by paul-collins

Oh, and choc, it's disingenious to say that one side uses childish insults while the other is angelic.

It just seems to me, as someone who follows both series, that the anti GA people can't resisit taking a pot shot at any opportunity. In this case the wording of the last question in the survey didn't help at all.

Anyway I'm rather worried that the Italians think "Beauty" is more inportant than the cars actually racing!

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by chocmonster7

Anyway I'm rather worried that the Italians think "Beauty" is more inportant than the cars actually racing!

Noooooo They would never do that.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by chocmonster7

It just seems to me, as someone who follows both series, that the anti GA people can't resisit taking a pot shot at any opportunity. In this case the wording of the last question in the survey didn't help at all.

There is a reality that some people genuinely don't like the GA product. It doesn't necessarily make them "anti" GA in the manner you speak of. Having said that, it is a rather pointless exercise now, and despite protestations, both extreme camps have such people. Pleading that one side is worse than another, is as bad as those zealots who do what you suggest, on either side.

Is there a point to perpetuating this?

[El_Gibleto]

A poster earlier asked why SRO don't provide a wifi feed of live timing so spectators can follow the live timing during FIA Gt races. SAdly the infrastructure isn't in place at most circuits and SRO wouldn't provide it on a temporary basis.

SRO are only inerested in one thing, making money, providing good value to competitors or spectators is the last thing on their agenda.

[chocmonster7]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Is there a point to perpetuating this?

As long as surveys about the popularity of the various sportscar series keep appearing then there will always be discussions like this.

For me it is interesting to see that the lack of spectators at GA races is a big thing yet the lack of them at LMS events never seem to cause as much of a stir. Don't think the missing ones at European races can be blamed on the France family, but then I could be wrong...

[broadrun96]

If the things I have read are right and the thread about the new G35 tube-chassis car is correct, I think it could be the end for smaller ALMS teams, Why not spend the lower dollar figure involved in building up tubular cars that can be changed to whatever manufacturor will give you the best deal. The only things is, will this bring some Porsche teams back to the ALMS since I'm pretty sure Porsche would never allow tubular cars not prepped by them, and I'm sure that wouldn't be cheap. Yes, I am not fan or NASCAR and becoming less of a Rolex sc fan with every passing year. And the ALMS seems to be wishing for the LMS fields in one hand but doing everything they can to go the other direction with the other. ****ing off both of the only GT1 teams with every race is doing wonders for the class survival. Will there even be any entrants next year? Both are supposedly threatening to go LMS racing instead. Being a guy who is stuck with the NASCAR channel, sorry I mean SPEED(occasionnaly), I am stuck only getting to see brief reviews of the LMS season races in 60-90 minute blocks and the season has just started here. I get teased with what appears to be great, close and full fields of cars instead of the dominant teams of the ALMS in all classes but GT2. Keeping the major manufacturor teams in sports car racing really seems to be limiting the ability of smaller teams to get anywhere and keeps them from staying around long term.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

If the things I have read are right and the thread about the new G35 tube-chassis car is correct, I think it could be the end for smaller ALMS teams, Why not spend the lower dollar figure involved in building up tubular cars that can be changed to whatever manufacturor will give you the best deal. The only things is, will this bring some Porsche teams back to the ALMS since I'm pretty sure Porsche would never allow tubular cars not prepped by them, and I'm sure that wouldn't be cheap. Yes, I am not fan or NASCAR and becoming less of a Rolex sc fan with every passing year. And the ALMS seems to be wishing for the LMS fields in one hand but doing everything they can to go the other direction with the other. ****ing off both of the only GT1 teams with every race is doing wonders for the class survival. Will there even be any entrants next year? Both are supposedly threatening to go LMS racing instead. Being a guy who is stuck with the NASCAR channel, sorry I mean SPEED(occasionnaly), I am stuck only getting to see brief reviews of the LMS season races in 60-90 minute blocks and the season has just started here. I get teased with what appears to be great, close and full fields of cars instead of the dominant teams of the ALMS in all classes but GT2. Keeping the major manufacturor teams in sports car racing really seems to be limiting the ability of smaller teams to get anywhere and keeps them from staying around long term.

I dont believe the GT2 cars can not be tube frame but converted or purpose built race cars from the manufacture. GT1s can be either, with the purpose built race car having a few parts form the stock road going cars.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

I dont believe the GT2 cars can not be tube frame but converted or purpose built race cars from the manufacture. GT1s can be either, with the purpose built race car having a few parts form the stock road going cars.

I'm not certain what you are suggesting here. Are you suggesting that GT1's can be tube frame, purpose built race cars, with few parts from the stock road going car?

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

I'm not certain what you are suggesting here. Are you suggesting that GT1's can be tube frame, purpose built race cars, with few parts from the stock road going car?

YES. The Corvette CR.r was never a C6Z06 street car converted into a race car. The C6.r is a purpose built (silhouette) car with only the torque tube tunnel and the rear bumper off the stock road version of the C6Z.

The C5-R and the C6.r are built by Pratt & Miller Engineering, with Chevy input. http://prattmiller.com

If I rember correctly the Pro Drive Ferrari 550's were slightly used cars with one being bought off a used car lot, then stripped and rebuilt from the frame up.

If I had to bet I would not think there is much of the AMs that was used in the road version either. Just looks like the road version.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

YES. The Corvette CR.r was never a C6Z06 street car converted into a race car. The C6.r is a purpose built (silhouette) car with only the torque tube tunnel and the rear bumper off the stock road version of the C6Z.

The C5-R and the C6.r are built by Pratt & Miller Engineering, with Chevy input. http://prattmiller.com

If I rember correctly the Pro Drive Ferrari 550's were slightly used cars with one being bought off a used car lot, then stripped and rebuilt from the frame up.

If I had to bet I would not think there is much of the AMs that was used in the road version either. Just looks like the road version.

The C6 uses the same amount of prod. parts as the C5 did.
The Z0 6 is just plain illegal.

"Frame up", that is how mod. GTs are built, anywhere, period.

The original C6 was constructed in less of a mod. manner than the original C5, as the C5 program was started under different circumstances.

There was at least one article in a major magazine toting how much of the prod. Corvette was in the C5, but lessons learned in competition helped P&M avoid such a sharp learning curve this time.

No more and no less of the prod. car is in the C6 than must be, and there is not a special set of rules for the C6.
The engine is one that any competent engine builder can duplicate, from the Chevrolet Heavy Duty parts book, minus any secrets needed to over-come ACO spec. power reducing restrictions.(That is the extreme amount of $$$$$$$ That keeps privateers, in the US anyway, out of GT1)

An advantage P&M has, due to factory connections, they do not have to deal with body-in-white cars, as last I heard they were shipped bare chassis.
The only thing they save is the time it takes any team to strip a car down to a bare chassis.
I would bet a fair amount, that this is done to save Chevy the money P&M would charge to strip the body-in-white.

The Corvettes are no more, or less prod. than the Ferraris or Aston Martins.
The performance defficiencies, in this case, come from artificial constrictions from the ACO, not any lacking in basic car platforms; if the electronic equalling is adapted, it will give no manufacturer, a reason to run either a factory team, or even give independants any help, as the product from the rules will be total farce, from which any victory would be totally meaningless.
Bob

[AU N EGL]

Not quite Bob

History of the C5R and C6.r http://palmeter.com/

and Katech Engineering builds the C5R adn C6.r engines



http://katechengines.com/katech_inc/

http://katechengines.com/corporate_s...e_programs.php



Photo tour of P&M
http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread...hlight=sebring

and
Slide Show:
http://www.katechengines.com/street...ebring_0001.wmv

Lots of Sebring Pictures ( Not 56K freindly)
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=473089

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Not quite Bob

History of the C5R and C6.r http://palmeter.com/

and Katech Engineering builds the C5R adn C6.r engines



http://katechengines.com/katech_inc/

http://katechengines.com/corporate_s...e_programs.php

Photo tour of P&M
http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread...hlight=sebring

and
Slide Show:
http://www.katechengines.com/street...ebring_0001.wmv

Lots of Sebring Pictures ( Not 56K freindly)
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=473089

Good Sir:
Just what am I supposed to be looking for, in the sites above?
I have dial-up and it takes a long time to connect fully.

I realize Katech built the engines, but as I said, or should have, the LS has been around long enough it is no longer unknown territory.
Depending on whether or not the ACO requires part no. on parts, there is now an after market cylinder block, better than the Chevy units.
The cylinder heads though are special, with ports and valve size made just for the ACO restrictor racing. I do not know if they are available over the counter.

Sadly, fifty miles from here I have an article that does a side by side on the ZO 6 and C6R, which partly details differences.

I do not know how current IMSA (ACO) rules differ from the original IMSA mod. GT rules, but if you ever saw a picture of a Greenwood coil-over car (the one without a leaf in back), starting point was 2/3 Corvette frame.
Now that may not seem like much of a prod. car, but where everything must be attached and located, plus a prod. firewall, is what makes a mod. prod. a mod. prod. car verses a tubey, where you can put anything damn near anywhere.

Bob

[AU N EGL]

Bob

YES the LS blocks can be build extreemly well by a good builder. Then the C5R and the LS7r blocks are not LSx blocks. The C5R block is availbe to purchase by customers, about $5500, the LS7r block is not avalible to purchase. Nether of these blocks are close to the LS2 or LS7 blocks.

Non of the special LS7r parts are avaible to customers. I tried.

You are right that any 'real' GT1 car is built from the ground up off the stock chassie not a road version car that has been converted to a GT1 car.
I wonder if the GT2 cars are road going cars converted to raced cars, or tube frames. The Porsches 996 and the new 997 RSR are still stripped to the frame and rebuilt by each team before it hits the track.

[ger80]

Someone of Aston Martin told that they are able to build a DBR9 from a DB9 at the racetrack (of course only if they would need to do).

[Supercar]

Originally Posted by ger80

Someone of Aston Martin told that they are able to build a DBR9 from a DB9 at the racetrack (of course only if they would need to do).

I saw the guys at the WC-GT Aston Martin team (Automotive Designs??) try to use an alternator from their road car. It did not fit!

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by ger80

Someone of Aston Martin told that they are able to build a DBR9 from a DB9 at the racetrack (of course only if they would need to do).

That is what AM Marketing WANTS YOU TO BELIEVE to sell more road cars. Not chance.

The welding and installation of the roll cage alone is 100+ hours