Bristol 450

[fyrth]

This is a car that has always fascinated me, probably because I had a Dinky model of the car when young! I believe they ran twice at Le Mans winning the team award, and at one or two other events, and that was that.

Is it true the cars were dismantled as Bristols did not want them getting old and unreliable in the club scene? Or does one still exist? I am sure the answers are out there.

[Al Weyman]

I rebuilt a straight 6 Bristol engine in an AC Ace once when I was working for Nathan Racing way back in the 60's, weird cross over pushrod arrangement as I remember but gave a hemispherical chamber, quite innotitive at the time I would have thought, would that have been the same power plant?

[D-Type]

Where do we start?

In 1952 ERA produced the G-Type which was raced by Stirling Moss in three GPs and five other races. The car was designed by David Hodkin, not Professor von Eberhorst the Auto Union designer as is sometimes stated. despite a chassis of magnesium-alloy, the car was too heavy for the power of the Bristol engine and was not as fast as the Cooper-Bristol. ERA sold the car and the design to Bristol who replicated the chassis in steel and used it as the basis of the 450.

The 450 ran as a coupe at Le Mans and Reims in 1953 and 1954 and in open form at Le Mans in 1955.

The full race record is

Le Mans 1953
Tommy Wisdom/Jack Fairman DNF (accident)
Lance Macklin/Graham Whitehead DNF (fire)

Reims 12hrs 1953
Peter J Wilson/Jack Fairman 5th, 1st in class
Lance Macklin/Graham Whitehead DNF (transmission)

Le Mans 1954
Peter J Wilson/Jim Mayers 7th, 1st in class
Tommy Wisdom/Jack Fairman 8th, 2nd in class
Mike Keen/Tommy Line 9th, 3rd in class

Reims 12hrs 1954
Mike Keen/Tommy Line 10th, 2nd in class
Peter J Wilson/Jim Mayers 11th, 3rd in class
Tommy Wisdom/Jack Fairman 12th, 5th in class)

Le Mans 1955
Peter J Wilson/Jim Mayers 7th, 1st in class, 3rd in Biennial Cup
Tommy Wisdom/Jack Fairman 8th, 2nd in class
Mike Keen/Tommy Line 9th, 3rd in class

(results courtesy of http://www.wsrp.wz.cz/ )

One open car appeared at the 2004 Goodwood Revival, but only in a parade, not in a race. But it might be a re-creation

I don’t know about Bristol refusing to sell them for club racing, but it is quite credible as they were designed purely to compete at the high speed Le Mans circuit and would not have shone in UK club racing.

Al,
Yes this was the same engine. It was derived from the prewar BMW 328 design which was given to Bristol as war reparation.

[david birchall]

There were modifications to the engines though that were not seen on 'production' Bristol engines; They had six intake ports unlike the three of normal Bristol engines. I am not sure if the cam was gear driven.

[John Turner]

These were amazing and successful cars; just to add a little to D-types info; they were in different form each year. Bristols, of course, used the knowledge gained from their involvement in the aero industry and the shape of the 450 reflected the latest understanding of aerodynamics. As D-type says, they were in coupe form in 1953 and 1954 but the 53 car was really quite ugly; the shape was considerably cleaned up for 1954 and it was this shape that formed the basis for the Dinky model (which, if memory serves me carried the competition number 27 and was not therefore a Le Mans no., so by deduction was a Rheims no.). Yes, there is an open version in existence, but, I too, am not sure whether it is an original. Great shame that a version of the 54 coupe did not survive, but I think they were chopped to create the 55 open cars. The coupe looked space age, at the time!

[krt917]

Originally Posted by John Turner

The 53 car was really quite ugly

I don't think there is any 'quite' about it! The '53 car has to be one of the ugliest Le Mans cars ever, though the cleaned up '54 version looked quite something. As the results show, once they got the car started, it was very effective in its class.

As for the remaining car, I seem to recall that it was one of the originals, but I cannot find any confirmation on that at the moment.

[Al Weyman]

The '53 car has to be one of the ugliest Le Mans cars ever,

Did Bristol ever produce an atractive looking car, that Beaufighter was it or am I getting mixed up with WW2 aircraft (same company was'nt it?), square shaped thing, anyhow IMHO must have been the ugliest car for the money ever made, I remeber driving past their showroom in West London and thinking to myself how on earth do they sell them.

[John Turner]

Al, I agree that the Bristol offerings of the last 50 years have, generally, been unattractive, but yes the early ones, the 400, 401, 403, 404 and more contentiously the 405 were, to my eyes, anyway, pretty attractive cars. They managed to sell the later recent cars on build quality, exclusivity and customer loyalty. I would guess that had the cars been physically more attractive, they would have sold more, so I think your point is well made!

[fyrth]

The Bristol Owners Club site suggest that the open 450's were dismantled in the works and one replica rebuilt from the best parts, remaining with Tony Crook. This car passed to new hands and is apparently the one seen occasionally in recent years, without the race spec. engine but with a 6 port head.

The latter 450 coupe was certainly the most attractive version of the car, and indeed the most attractive Bristol built, although not much room for 10 suitcases!

[krt917]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Did Bristol ever produce an atractive looking car?

As JT says, I think some of the earlier cars weren't too bad, but some of their later offerings were awful. I think it's fair to say that their aircraft were better looking than their cars - the WWII Beaufighter was an incredible piece of aeronautical kit!

Thanks for the info on the 450, fyrth. It'll be another one of those not-original-but-built-from-original-bits cars then!

[Barry Boor]

There is a relatively new model manufacturer called Bizarre, who produce lovely diecast models of all 8 Le Mans entries from 1953-55.

I have an example from all 3 years in my collection, though one is a restored Dinky.

Here is the 1953 car http://62.149.36.46/~bruce/cgi-bin/bristol.jpg
and the 1955 car http://62.149.36.46/~bruce/cgi-bin/bristol32.JPG

[Al Weyman]

Thanks for the pictures now we know what we are talking about:-). That 55 looks real pretty but as had been said the 53 is a bit of a monster.

[Anuauto]

A slight aside. The film "Dance With a Stranger" claims David Blakeley was initially offered a Bristol drive at Le Mans in 1955 (but was shot by Ruth Ellis prior to the event). Whether correct or not, the recreation of the early 50s paddock at Goodwood in the film must surely have been the inspiration for the period costumes and support vehicles now part of the current Goodwood Revival?

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Thanks for the pictures now we know what we are talking about:-). That 55 looks real pretty but as had been said the 53 is a bit of a monster.

Al, if you can picture the 55 front end with the 53 back end, you pretty much have what the 54 car looked like.

[h4887]

Originally Posted by D-Type

In 1952 ERA produced the G-Type which was raced by Stirling Moss in three GPs and five other races. The car was designed by David Hodkin, not Professor von Eberhorst the Auto Union designer as is sometimes stated. despite a chassis of magnesium-alloy, the car was too heavy for the power of the Bristol engine and was not as fast as the Cooper-Bristol. ERA sold the car and the design to Bristol who replicated the chassis in steel and used it as the basis of the 450.

.

Just retrieved this pic of the G-Type from my extensive filing system, a.k.a. cardboard box in the attic

[JonathanG]

Hi

I have been tempted to make my first post in response to this.

For a long time Bristol Cars used to have a service depot by the Chiswick Roundabout at the end of the M4. My father used to take his car there for servicing and repairs.

On one occasion I was with him, and we were waiting whilst some minor repairs were being made. I was about 10 or 11 at the time, and clearly bored waiting around. One of the mechanics asked if I wanted to see the 'racing cars'. We went into a large store room, packed full of cars, including lots of Bristols, a line of Electric Cars made by Zagato which Bristol Cars were agents for, a Frazer Nash, Cooper Bristol and the aforementioned 450 Le Mans Car.

I tried both the Cooper and 450 for size (as did my father - over grown school boy). The 450 had no engine, the Cooper did. We were told the engine out of the 450 was in Mr Crook's personal 404 (MPH 100D).

The 450 was dusty but complete. My father asked as to the fate of the others and was told they were 'cut up'. The engines survived. I think there had been four of them. The remaining one has the G type ERA chassis. Perhaps that chassis was fitted with the least worn out bits of the others. I imagine it a lot more genuine than most old race cars though.

Back then (1979 at a guess) it looked original, with a thick coating of dust. The Cooper looked the same. That was Tony Crook's personal car, a wide bodied one which had 'half' a passenger seat so it could run as a sportscar.

I later saw the 450 at a Bristol gathering in Kensington Gardens. Tony Crook showed up in it, with Trade Plates stuck on, having driven it up Kensington High Street from their Showroom. By then it had been re-painted, and an engine of some sort put in.

I understand it was sold to Simon Draper, along with a few other rarities Bristol Cars had such as a short chassis 406.

Agree that Bristol lost the way on the styling front (in my opinion after the 407), but few manufacturers had Le Mans cars lying around for their customers sons to try for size, or a Chairman with a Scalextric set in his office. Perhaps that was the attraction - they certainly looked after the customers.


Jonathan

[John Turner]

Lovely story, Jonathan; it seems to confirm that the survivor has mainly original bits in it. A 1954 Coupe would be a wonderful piece of exotica now, if one survived.

[fyrth]

Thank you for that post Jonathan. A fine example of how a forum can be really interesting and informative when someone was actually there! And the Cooper Bristol alongside, presumably the car Tony Crook raced in period both as a single seater and sports car with wings.

With regard to the body styling of road cars their web site currently offers an open 2 seater along the lines of a very large Porsche Speedster - available to order and certainly different!