Embassy's Prototype Plans Revealed

[old man]

Can I ask all you real technical experts something please?

What makes for a good LMP chassis, is it torsional stiffness, roll centres, wheelbase, aerodynamics, what is it? The Radical seemed good straight out of the box, Lola have years of experience and Porsche is Porsche so why should we (me included) think that the Pilbeam is a bit of a gamble? Mike Pilbeam has been around a long time but I associate him with hill climb cars and BRM, not successful sportscars. What are the technical problems he has to overcome to beat the Porsche because that is what JF is trying to do with this staff lineup, are we being anoracks?

Or perhaps is the Pilbeam just to learn on before A McQueen deigns and builds his own chassis for the mysterious big company in the wings?

[Randy]

If I were to start an LMP2 program tomorrow I would look very seriously at the Pilbeam. With all Mike Pilbeams experience you know they dynamics of the chassis will be good, it shares the lola/hewland gearbox which is a plus. Downsides I can see are question marks over the aero although I believe a BAR aero guy did the bulk of the aero work on the car and perhaps inferior build quality compared to the Lola (which is beautifully made but that takes £££).

[Alain P]

You know, lots people think If i wwas to have an LMP2 car I would chose such chasis with such engine, and that is it. Think about it, with this Pilbeam and Alastair Macqueen, they can say I want this engine, this gearbox, this shift system, this wiring. This may not be possible with other type of cars such as Lola. They have the chance to make optimal every part of the package, maybe even the aerodynamics. Is kind of like building your own car.

[cmk]

I think this is not a terrible, but definitely debatable, selection of chassis and engine. There's no doubt JF has lots of money and some sense, but sometimes I wonder if the latter doesn't fall prey to the former. See the abortive Ascari effort (though that wasn't entirely his fault).

The Pilbeam is not a bad chassis per se, but I fail to see that it consistently measures up with the best in the class at present. The evidence certainly isn't there. While Pilbeam SR2 chassis were OK, they were probably never as good as the competing Lolas either. I seem to remember that the last Bucknum chassis was flexy to the point where they stopped running it, and I guess K2 never ran theirs enough to have an idea if it was epidemic.

Unlike the RS Spyder, yes, this car does allow a free selection of internals. It also comes at a much lower price point. However, the Spyder provides a turnkey winner (or so it seems, with the 07 version) with minimal future infusions of cash for development, since Porsche AG would handle that. There is also more ability to select the guts of this car than, say, a Radical, but given the pricepoint of the Radical and its competitiveness, I can't believe you wouldn't want to run one of those instead.

If this is just an exploratory mission, so be it. I could understand that. With McQueen on board there is lots of potential for development. What I don't get, then, is why the drivers and boss are talking up this year so much. Honestly, you are setting yourselves up for a fall, guys.

[JAG]

Isn't the Pilbeam a new chassis?

Isn't the Judd the same engine Rollcentre ran, from the same family as the benchmark customer P1 engine, and the same configeration as the RS Spyder and Acura?

I personally believe two professional drivers with the back-up they have available to them at Embassy should be able to achieve podiums.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by cmk

I seem to remember that the last Bucknum chassis was flexy to the point where they stopped running it.

I think their problems came about with the switch to the Willman engine, which I think was the development of the the JPX or whatever it was called, development of the Nissan V6. It had a more open V angle, so mounted differently, and differently then the car was designed. I also think they did installation themselves and not through Pilbeam.

I may of course be totally and completly wrong on all or some of the details....

robert

[Jed Maxwell]

I agree with Jag. I dont think this car got a fair crack of the whip last year and look at the results it got through relliability and consitancy. ER have a good budget behind them (it appears...) to devolop this car so will make it fast too. Lets just wait and see but I think those of you already have put it down may be eating your hats. Good luck JF and ER

[CsM]

i know mike pilbeam personaly and i can say that the pilbeam that run last season didn't run to its full pertential for one reason or another and that a lot of work has gone into this years car and i personaly can't wait to see what it is capable of.

[The Badger]

Thats great to hear . I somehow didnt think that the Pilbeam was being run to its full potential the last few years . Cant wait to see what it really can do , and with Hughes behind the wheel ..... Looks like a nice little car .

[bickers]

Seem's very odd to me!Engineering wise the Pilbeam is just nowhere near as good as what it should be.Hopefully with the influx of cash they can improve the car big time cause they will need to!

[dj choc ice]

i have to agree with bickers imo, the pilbeam was a great looking and sounding car in 05 and 06 but off the pace of the courage C65's, let alone the lola's.

if the car is getting developed then that is good, the faster the pilbeam becomes the better because im a bit sick of seeing the lola B05/40 winning every LMP2 class in europe

[Matt_S]

The competition to test the Embassy Pilbeam is now launched at www.racingambition.co.uk

[Alain P]

If you check embassy web site there is a photograph of their new car. So it does exist! Does someone know what is their testing plans?

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by skycafe

I think their problems came about with the switch to the Willman engine, which I think was the development of the the JPX or whatever it was called, development of the Nissan V6. It had a more open V angle, so mounted differently, and differently then the car was designed. I also think they did installation themselves and not through Pilbeam.

I may of course be totally and completly wrong on all or some of the details....

robert

Yes, there was a great deal of chassis flex in the end. I am told that the Pilbeam chassis was originally designed for engines that were much less powerful than LMP2 grew to. There was some belief that the extra power caused some flex, and over time, magnified itself.

I wouldn't blame Pilbeam for this, the car was ultimately used as something it wasn't designed for.

[old man]

As ever J France is keeping the publicity for his team very high and the DSC report is interesting they are really trying to do a good job. Who is Jody Firth, his comments sound like those of an engineer but no mention of Alistair McQueen?

[rdjones]

Jody Firth is the team manager, he used to race for Embassy Racing in the British Formula Renault Championship.

[old man]

Having been away for more than a week on business and unable to get my 10/10ths fix I was surprised not find this thread at the top of page one.

What has happened here with the Pilbeam? Reports say that uprights have broken and there is a lot to fix, does this mean that Embassy are putting more stress on components than previous runners of this chassis and so redsign is required? Where is Alistair McQueen? Did he join the team as stated over the winter, it would be interesting to have his take on their problems.

Still at least our other favourite, the Rollcentre Radical gets a reprieve and it will be fascinating to see how these two drivers get on with that car at Monza.

[KaspervG]

Originally Posted by old man

What has happened here with the Pilbeam? Reports say that uprights have broken and there is a lot to fix, does this mean that Embassy are putting more stress on components than previous runners of this chassis and so redesign is required?

They did make aero modifications to the front of their car, so maybe they found more downforce than mike pilbeam had designed it for.

[TWK]

There were other problems, covered by dsc at the time.

[ger80]

Why dont they run the "normal" Pilbeam? The PiR car performed well last year with the Judd engine if you are taking the PiR budget into account from my point of view.