Money Talk - Page 2

JohnSSC · 15 Sep 2007, 14:08 (Ref:2013643)

Quote:

Originally Posted by luke

Unbelievable. Anyway you can wiggle out of something. I provided a source from that era, we know none of those have stopped from TG, my opinion is they have increased.

I am not sure that the "wiggling " you refer to is not a result of your own gyrations....

So we "know" that none of the "support" has stopped? Really? You are making a contention here luke, support it. You speak in absolutes here so therefore you must have proof. It is one thing to say: "I THINK he is doing this" and quite another to say: "I KNOW..."

The source you provided is from an "era" which we were not discussing. I would like to see a source from the "2007 era."

luke · 15 Sep 2007, 14:15 (Ref:2013650)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

I am not sure that the "wiggling " you refer to is not a result of your own gyrations....

So we "know" that none of the "support" has stopped? Really? You are making a contention here luke, support it. You speak in absolutes here so therefore you must have proof. It is one thing to say: "I THINK he is doing this" and quite another to say: "I KNOW..."

The source you provided is from an "era" which we were not discussing. I would like to see a source from the "2007 era."

No. Not at all. As I said we know he hasn't stopped paying the prize money since now for 2008. We know he still is the leader of the series so he still spends an awful amount as he had done in the past. We also know he subsidizes some of the smaller teams. My opinion which I am entitled to is that his money help in the series has increased since 2002 because of the domination by the CART teams driving out the smaller IRL teams that couldn't compete. You are making out it doesn't happen anymore. And my opinion which I am entitled to based on previous facts is that he may have increased his involvement with helping finance teams.

Knowlesy · 15 Sep 2007, 14:24 (Ref:2013662)

Key word here being opinion. Which, depending on the situation that best suits whatever individual, either means stonewall fact or total rubbish.

JohnSSC · 15 Sep 2007, 14:42 (Ref:2013682)

Where did I say what TG is doing? I am asking you for a link, luke, to prove what we all "know."

If you have no link then what you suggest about TG's level of support becomes strictly your own opinion, not fact.

luke · 15 Sep 2007, 14:45 (Ref:2013687)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Where did I say what TG is doing? I am asking you for a link, luke, to prove what we all "know."

If you have no link then what you suggest about TG's level of support becomes strictly your own opinion, not fact.

You were making out he hasn't spent a penny since 2002 after refusing any link or anything, even sense. Fact is we know he hasn't stopped what he is previously doing financially an my opinion based on events is it has increased. You drive me to drink!

JohnSSC · 15 Sep 2007, 14:51 (Ref:2013694)

I was making out what? Quote me then.

It would be wonderful if I had actually written any of what you are saying, scary that you are supposing you know what I am thinking...

mountainstar · 15 Sep 2007, 15:27 (Ref:2013731)

I don't keep a register of links ready to pull up at a moments notice for john, but I know the financials of the irl have been well discussed since 2002.

If you actually speak to anyone in the business it is well known what the situation is.

That aside I truly hope this new program for the irl goes ahead. It is about as exciting as CART's entrant support program in 2003 and we all know how that turned out. I think all you will get out of it are a bunch of start money specials. It will kill the competition as well. Those out of championship contention are not going to risk a pass for 11th place, for instance.

It all goes to show all that tg cares about is indy, which is why CART was created in the first place.

I always thought if CART had taken all that money they spent on esp programs in 2003 and made it prize money instead they may have still been here today. Ultimately people need incentive. Kill the incentive, kill the competition.

thebear · 15 Sep 2007, 18:42 (Ref:2013880)

Where are the `mods' when you need them? . . .

JohnSSC · 15 Sep 2007, 19:30 (Ref:2013912)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

If you actually speak to anyone in the business it is well known what the situation is.

Interesting! The presumption there is that you have and I haven't. Oh well, think what you want!

And thank God there is prize money in CC for "incentive" I guess. Look how much Servia has won (if he has) and he is still out on his arse.

luke · 15 Sep 2007, 22:37 (Ref:2014079)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

I was making out what? Quote me then.

It would be wonderful if I had actually written any of what you are saying, scary that you are supposing you know what I am thinking...

Unbelievable. You were refusing common knowledge from the past, it is still the same today and my opinion was it is more now under current situations but you refuse to accept that and make out nothing is being done. It's common sense and you know that. I give up.

NAC · 15 Sep 2007, 23:07 (Ref:2014091)

Who is ahead on points JohnSSC or luke. No don't answer that.

Guys I think we have exhausted this discussion and neither has moved. How about we just agree to disagree before it gets to hot in here.

thebear · 15 Sep 2007, 23:34 (Ref:2014108)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NAC

Who is ahead on points JohnSSC or luke. No don't answer that.

Guys I think we have exhausted this discussion and neither has moved. How about we just agree to disagree before it gets to hot in here.

Thanks - a voice of reason.

JohnSSC · 16 Sep 2007, 10:38 (Ref:2014392)

Reason! Now there is something I should have used when I met my ex-wife...

Have a good day folks!

NAC · 16 Sep 2007, 10:45 (Ref:2014401)

Hey guys Adam closed this thread for a while, a little cool down time. Sent him a PM and asked to get back on line which he has done. Lets keep it a bit lighter and moving. Ta

thebear · 16 Sep 2007, 11:23 (Ref:2014436)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NAC

Hey guys Adam closed this thread for a while, a little cool down time. Sent him a PM and asked to get back on line which he has done. Lets keep it a bit lighter and moving. Ta

And thank you again.

Now then, where were we?

Possibly HERE ?

NAC · 16 Sep 2007, 15:00 (Ref:2014656)

thebear. Ha haaaaa

that about sumed it up

Back to the topic

I did a search and came up with a some other interesting thoughts on the matter. I wont link them as they came from another forum but will quote them. Hope that OK mods, if not please delete

Quote:

Mike Hull of TCGR: "Increasing revenue to the teams is vital to the long-term success of the series and it’s a big step forward in a series that already pays good prize money. If you know coming in you’re guaranteed $1.3 million, then a smaller team can work backwards and go out and find somebody to support the rest of the program."

Quote:

Economies of scale should allow teams to field more cars -- which is more palatable to TCGR: putting out 2 cars and getting $2.6mm in guaranteed money, or putting Alex Lloyd in a chassis they already have and getting $3.9 mm in guaranteed money, with a sponsor paying Lloyd's salary and the crew? The structure is already there, and teams already have a handful of Dallara tubs (heck, if Roth can end up with two, it can't be all bad).

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