Miller's Champ Car Review

[stradlin21]

from Speedtv.com

http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/41623/

Robin Miller

"A resplendent rookie class, a joke of a schedule, a change in the pecking order, a woeful television package, a new car that was a pain to work on but a pleasure for competitive balance, the insane musical chairs with drivers and a "stand-up" guy calling the shots were Champ Car's headline makers in 2007.

Almost half the field was newcomers yet this was easily the best group of rookies in a long time. Robert Doornbos left a mediocre ride in Formula 1 for some instant gratification in Champ Car with old boss Paul Stoddart and Keith Wiggins. Refreshingly candid, personable and quick, the 26-year-old Dutchman twice put Minardi Team USA in victory lane and briefly led the point standings. He also managed to get under Sebastien Bourdais' skin.

Considering his experience, Doornbos figured to be rookie-of-the-year but Graham Rahal and Simon Pagenaud were mighty impressive in their first pass through the Champ Car schedule.

What do you all think to Miller's review then?

For a guy that is so pro champ car I think it's very honest and well done to him for saying what he thinks.

[BootsOntheSide]

I think he's been fairly accurate. A great product is being produced, with lots of action and several competitive drivers and teams (including rookies) that is completely failing to sell itself to a wide audience. With minimal TV interest and a flimsy and vulnerable schedule, people just don't know what they will get. Rent-a-rides to ensure local attention just emphasise this situation.

[f1manoz]

Lots of good rookies, the on-track action cannot be overlooked, but his take on the stability of the series rings true.

In 2008 there needs to be consistency in the team and driver markets. Two drivers in two car teams who remain there for the 14, 16, however many races.

If they want to add a local driver for sponsorship / TV reasons, fine, add one but how about adding a third car?!?!?

IMO Miller's review pretty much sums up what everyone in here has been saying. The action on track was fantastic, it's what isn't on the track is the concern.

[luke]

So stradlin are you going to change your view now that he doesn't just nit pick at the IRL?

[Tony Clifton]

Millers assessment is correct.

I am not so confident that CCWS was be around for the 2009 season; therefore I intend to catch as many races as I can in 2008.

Open wheel racing has killed itself in the USA all due to huge egos and money fighting over the next buck. If open wheel racing owners had worked in a cooperative manner back in the mid '90's we would not be where we are today.

Virtually EVERY wrong decision you could make CART/CCWS has made and there is only a tiny chance to go back and get even a slightly larger interest group.
Don't worry the other open wheel racing series is not in great shape either, if CCWS goes away they are not suddenly going to explode in growth and if the reverse happens don't expect anything better either.

IMO the only real solution is a merger and a dictator that can call ALL the shots for the overall good of the racing series.
NASCAR has shown this time and time again.

I has in Hobart Tasmania recently, what was being shown on the hotel TV (Foxtel) was NASCAR and NASCAR truck series. Not even one mention of open wheel racing.

[stradlin21]

Originally Posted by luke

So stradlin are you going to change your view now that he doesn't just nit pick at the IRL?

oh dear, i'm really sorry about this again moderators! not my fault as you can see

Miller has an open hatred of the IRL which means his comments can't be taken seriously because he reports everything they do as bad news, he can only see one side, it's a shame because Miller could be so much more than he is/was

He does however have a much wider understanding of CC and isn't afraid to say what he thinks, some comments he made about CC actually caused them to censor him and and sack him

He will be as positive and negative as he needs to be and is a much better Champ Car reporter then he is MOTORSPORT reporter

[stradlin21]

Originally Posted by Tony Clifton

Millers assessment is correct.

I am not so confident that CCWS was be around for the 2009 season; therefore I intend to catch as many races as I can in 2008.

Open wheel racing has killed itself in the USA all due to huge egos and money fighting over the next buck. If open wheel racing owners had worked in a cooperative manner back in the mid '90's we would not be where we are today.

Virtually EVERY wrong decision you could make CART/CCWS has made and there is only a tiny chance to go back and get even a slightly larger interest group.
Don't worry the other open wheel racing series is not in great shape either, if CCWS goes away they are not suddenly going to explode in growth and if the reverse happens don't expect anything better either.

IMO the only real solution is a merger and a dictator that can call ALL the shots for the overall good of the racing series.
NASCAR has shown this time and time again.

I has in Hobart Tasmania recently, what was being shown on the hotel TV (Foxtel) was NASCAR and NASCAR truck series. Not even one mention of open wheel racing.

The NCTS has been great this season, well done to the Horn

but I digress, I no longer believe that a merger is possible, TG firmly fell out with KK again after KK spewed a load of vermin and lies about potential Indy 500 entries from Champ Car teams, to be honest, I think that was another nail in his coffin

I'll be looking forward to 2008, the second season for the Panoz and hopefully some of the issues with it will be put right

My own view, and this is just my view is that I can't see Champ Car in it's current state surviving beyond 2009

What is left will either pack up completely or defect to the IRL but even then, like you say, it will not experience sudden growth, it will however have the full foundations it needs to eventually challenge the mighty NASCAR soap opera (i'm a NASCAR fan but you know what I mean)

until then, it's just a case of watching and waiting

[Tony Clifton]

Originally Posted by stradlin21

The NCTS has been great this season, well done to the Horn

but I digress, I no longer believe that a merger is possible, TG firmly fell out with KK again after KK spewed a load of vermin and lies about potential Indy 500 entries from Champ Car teams, to be honest, I think that was another nail in his coffin

I'll be looking forward to 2008, the second season for the Panoz and hopefully some of the issues with it will be put right

My own view, and this is just my view is that I can't see Champ Car in it's current state surviving beyond 2009

What is left will either pack up completely or defect to the IRL but even then, like you say, it will not experience sudden growth, it will however have the full foundations it needs to eventually challenge the mighty NASCAR soap opera (i'm a NASCAR fan but you know what I mean)

until then, it's just a case of watching and waiting

Yes, absolutely correct and yes, I do know what you mean.

The bad part for me is I am an open wheel fan and the other race series holds no interest for me. The cars ugly and relatively easy to drive and the Indy 500 is now a complete joke.

CCWS has no title sponsors, the cars are virtually devoid of any major sponsors, the very backbone of the series, the street circuits are not bringing any great attendance. The series has minimal TV coverage and if I am not mistaken CCWS is BUYING the TV time rather than being PAID for the TV time.
Even former F1 drivers are not coming over as they use to, look at what Speed, Montoya, Villenueve did. They all went NASCAR.
CCWS was dumb enough to kick Ford out.
New teams are not being formed, race grids are shrinking.

The other day I went to the CCWS web site and took a look at the starting grid for the 1998 Surfers race. The grid was huge and the talent deep.

My race series is dying before my very eyes and there is nothing I will be able to do to enjoy it in the future except go to as many races as I can while the series is alive.

The future looks dim for US open wheel racing.

[JohnSSC]

Tony and Stradlin have covered the main points pretty well here. Miller is not "nit-picking" by any stretch. He is just calling some of the things what they are. If you are willing to accept his view insofar as what he complements CC on (clean racing, improving driver quality) as being significant pluses, then you have to accept what he says in the negative as honest criticism.

When you cancel two races during the season, that is not "nit-picking."

When you have one driver driving for four different teams, that is not "nit-picking."

When you roll out a new car and don't find out until the first race you can't refuel it properly, that is not "nit-picking."

I am not sure if 2008 is a possibility at this point, let alone 2009.

[indycool]

Robin is a reporter for SPEED TV now. That is a different role and a different master than being a writer for CART/CC for their website with side jobs in the independent media. Miller, Gordon Kirby, John Oreowicz and David Phillips are off the CART/CC payroll and back to being journalists again. So, in COLUMN or COMMENTARY pieces, we're likely to see what they see....either good OR bad.

[andy_b]

agree with everything he said, the series really were a bit of a joke after a resonable couple of years, a real shame as I loved champ car.

btw- lets not put Ten-Tenths in a difficult legal situation, DO NOT post entire articles on the forum, these are copyright of Robin and Speed TV

[Tenoch]

So according to the article CCWS would be given a full season of TV on TV Azteca if Mario can find a fulltime ride. For those of you who don't know TV Azteca is an Over The Air FREE Channel in major Mexican cities.

I don't understand why the powers to be aren't trying to help MD out, I mean free TV coverage in what use to be a major market for CCWS sounds pretty good to me.

[indycool]

When Forsythe got involved in the promotion of the Mexico City race, he also got Mexican TV rights to sell. He's out of the promotion now, so maybe he's out of the TV game down there, too.

[D.R.T.]

As has been said a pretty balanced view of the 2007 Champ Car season.

Standouts being the competitive nature of the DP01 and the new class, especially the Atlantic graduates.

Low lights being the schedule, tv ratings and the line up changes.

[andy_b]

DRT, add to low lights, relibility and how difficult it is to work on the cars

[Teretonga]

Expand for me about the difficulty of working on the cars...
They are difficult to refuel?
What else?

[JohnSSC]

According to Miller and, I believe, David Phillips (Speed Channel) the mechanics find them difficult to work on. Neither (that I recall) gave specific examples of what the problem might be.

[champcarman]

There seems to be plenty of doom and gloom in this topic but there are some positives in the future of Champ Car and possibly some misconceptions can be drawn from Robin Millers article.

Firstly he is right about the 2007 crop of Rookie drivers. These were possibly the best bunch of Rookies for years and the good thing is that a lot of European (and other non US) drivers really do want to race in Champ Car and see it as an alternative to the sometimes impossible dream of F1.

Which brings me to the subject of the 2007 Schedule. Yes it was a joke but the positive that should come out of it is that perhaps Champ Car have learnt something from it and the 2008 Schedule looks far more sensible. The trick now will be to see it (the schedule) happen as scheduled.

Tying in with the fact that Open Wheel Racing in the US is in disarray and also with the interest from European drivers is the increase in European races, a good thing, but perhaps four should be the maximum.

Also with Bourdais at last scoring a long deserved F1 ride it may be that Champ Car can still be a gateway to F1 as well as a home for F1 refugees.

I think the perception that the Panoz is hard to work on is a bit of a misconception. Talking to a friend of mine, who is long term Champ Car mechanic with several Teams, he did nothing but sing the praises of the car. Perhaps it has some shortcomings but overall it is good for the Series, particularly in the area of costs which will become even more advantageous as the initial cost of the chassis is defrayed over the next couple of seasons.

Also I am not sure that the driver musical chairs is such a bad thing, as long as the main championship contenders stay put does it really matter. Sometimes it is good to see a driver, even a pay one, get an opportunity to strut his stuff at a higher level. David Martinez wasn't exactly disgraced in his couple of outings!

As for the TV, yes it is not good and whether US race fans care or not I do not know but I sure would like to let US Networks and Champ Car themselves know the the rest of the world wants to see Champ Car on TV and goodness knows why ESPN in Australia dont show it.

[Tony Clifton]

What does the degree of difficulty of working on the cars have to do with the overall racing and entertainment?

Absolutely nothing.

Big deal the cars are tough to work on, that is a mechanics problem.

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by Tony Clifton

What does the degree of difficulty of working on the cars have to do with the overall racing and entertainment?

Absolutely nothing.

Big deal the cars are tough to work on, that is a mechanics problem.

I agree. To the average fan, this is transparent: they do not know nor do they really care how long it takes to perform a maintenance on the cars. As long as the cars make it to the grid then for me, this is a non-issue.

Both Phillips and Miller complemented the field and in general and that was not misplaced for the most part. While Martinez did not embarrass himself, the whole musical chairs thing has to stop. Sure, in most any series you will have drivers drift in our out of the lower-tier teams but to have as much changeover as occurred this past season is too much.

[climb]

Originally Posted by champcarman

..
Also with Bourdais at last scoring a long deserved F1 ride it may be that Champ Car can still be a gateway to F1 as well as a home for F1 refugees.
...

Well if you have to win 4 CC titles in-a-row to get what another driver can have winning one GP2 (es Bourdais and Glock), that's not exactly a very optimistic message from CC.

And the expression "F1 refugees" for CC drivers sounds a bit euphemistic to me

[climb]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

.. Sure, in most any series you will have drivers drift in our out of the lower-tier teams but to have as much changeover as occurred this past season is too much.

Hard to disagree honestly

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by climb

Well if you have to win 4 CC titles in-a-row to get what another driver can have winning one GP2 (es Bourdais and Glock), that's not exactly a very optimistic message from CC.

If Bourdais runs particularly well, maybe one wont have to win 4 CC titles to be noticed by F1 teams in the future

[mountainstar]

AFAIK the car was designed specifically to be easier to work on than the Lola. I haven't heard any specific complaints from mechanics except for the few issues at the beginning of the year.

[Last2LiftOff]

Originally Posted by stradlin21

What do you all think of Miller's review then?

Okay Stradlin...

Originally Posted by Robin Miller

The three Formula Atlantic grads mentioned above proved they had a proper education and the right stuff.

FWIW, the Atlantics grid for 2008 is off to a bit of a slow start. Although I have a definite bias, having backed Wickens (and John Edwards) thanks to Red Bull, all of last year. With any luck there's another sponsor out there that's gonna step-up and replace those dollars, for Forsythe or otherwise. Life's just easier with a strong junior formula.

And hey, it's early. Still plenty of time until somebody drops a green flag.