BRM P126 & P133

[WouterM]

According to a variety of my sources only two examples of the P133 were constructed. They were the BRM version of the third party designed and built P126s. The same sources also claim that one of the two was destroyed very early in its career and written off. Last week at Monaco I shot a Robs Lamplough entered BRM, which claimed to be a P133. It looked very original and came complete with funky wings. The odd thing was they had it listed as a 1967 even though it should say 1968.

Picture:
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/gallery.php?num=2862

Once at home I started browsing the BRMs we actually feature and ran into the P133. That car I shot at the Nurburgring in 2004 and it clearly says on the side of the car 'P133-1'.

Picture:
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/pic.p...m=4&carnum=615

I found this all a bit confusing as both cars definitely are not the same, but only one should be around. My guess is that the P133 I shot at the Nurburgring was in fact a P126.

Can anyone clear this up?

[David McKinney]

Post-period, there has been a lot of confusion surrounding the P126s and P133s - exacerbated perhaps by the fact that Robs Lamplough owned examples of both in the 1970s
Ean Pugh always claimed his car (your Nürburgring picture) was a P126 - its plate was 12601. On the other hand Rick Hall, who worked at BRM in the 1960s, swore it was a P133. Maybe Pugh has finally been persuaded to change his car's identity.
But which cars are which I am no longer certain

[allenbrown]

I may be able to help. Ean's car is 126/02, ex-Robs, and Robs has 133-01 which is wonderfully original. David Brown had 126-01 last time I checked and the other two were written off: 126/03 in US GP practice October 1968 and 133/02 at the Monaco GP May 1968.

I hesitated to give this out as I've had some unfortunate experiences in recent months (not with you Wouter). So let me emphasise that this information, like all my F1 information, is copyright Allen Brown 2006 and all right are reserved. If anyone intends to publish this somewhere else, please get my permission first.

Allen

[WouterM]

Allen, BRM P126-01 was entered by Brad Krause at Monaco. Secondly I really enjoy your site and have it listed with every 3 litre F1 car as a suggested link.

[John Turner]

Right well let's formalise this shall we Allen, and put this in the chassis archive with direct links to your website:-

http://www.oldracingcars.com/type.asp?TypeID=P126

and, here:-

http://www.oldracingcars.com/type.asp?TypeID=P133

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

I may be able to help. Ean's car is 126/02, ex-Robs, and Robs has 133-01 which is wonderfully original. David Brown had 126-01 last time I checked and the other two were written off: 126/03 in US GP practice October 1968 and 133/02 at the Monaco GP May 1968.

I hesitated to give this out as I've had some unfortunate experiences in recent months (not with you Wouter). So let me emphasise that this information, like all my F1 information, is copyright Allen Brown 2006 and all right are reserved. If anyone intends to publish this somewhere else, please get my permission first.

Allen

A little confused here, 26th May 1968 Richard Attwood finished 2nd in the Monaco GP driving a BRM P126 Dobbin was his mechanic and I just checked those facts with the man himself. Unless I am not seeing it and it can happen the eyes at 70 are not what they were I find no record of the above on your web site under P126 records or P133.

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by p261brm

A little confused here, 26th May 1968 Richard Attwood finished 2nd in the Monaco GP driving a BRM P126 Dobbin was his mechanic and I just checked those facts with the man himself. Unless I am not seeing it and it can happen the eyes at 70 are not what they were I find no record of the above on your web site under P126 records or P133.

Your memory isn't wrong, it was 126-03.

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Your memory isn't wrong, it was 126-03.

Cheers, so where is 03 now? I understood it to be in the UK and at one point for sale last year.

[allenbrown]

Opinions are divided on the identities of some of the cars. Ean Pugh and I have a very good-natured difference of opinion for example. Somebody may be advertising one of the entirely genuine survivors using an identity I don't agree with.

I believe 126-03 was written off in US GP practice October 1968. I'm not aware of a replica P126 having been built.

Allen

[p261brm]

Un-ravelling BRM is a minefield, in particular as far as engines are concerned, and chassis/tubs will be as bad and badly damaged cars that re-appear are not allways the realm of the un-scruplous. If it could be saved at BRM it was, blocks welded engine numbers changed etc. Works records in some cases do not bear any resemblance to the truth and lead researchers in the wrong direction, which again leads historic car owners of to=day to question originality.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by p261brm

Un-ravelling BRM is a minefield, in particular as far as engines are concerned, and chassis/tubs will be as bad and badly damaged cars that re-appear are not allways the realm of the un-scruplous. If it could be saved at BRM it was, blocks welded engine numbers changed etc. Works records in some cases do not bear any resemblance to the truth and lead researchers in the wrong direction, which again leads historic car owners of to=day to question originality.

I remember one British GP where Alan Challis and the BRM mechanics changed 6 engines over the three days!

Plus there were the problems with the Carnet System which meant chassis plates would be switched ad naseum throughout the season.

As you say this only makes it more likely that some unscruplous people will build-up phoney cars to palm off onto the unsuspecting.

[p261brm]

Yes and some; not only changing them re-buiding out of four to make one reasonable race worthy one

[p261brm]

Not strictly P126, a case with a V8 the number is not important or could cause cries of pain, an early ouside exhaust engine, no doubt an original BRM block casting heads all of it rods crank original pistons crowns fitted to combustion chambers all genuine, except the rods were from a 3ltr, the bearing size is different 1.5'' on the 1.5ltr 1.635'' on the 3ltr so that means a V8 crank produced with V12 crank pin sizes.