[LM24 Race] The 76th edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans - RACE THREAD

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by cmk

Well, if it is supposition, it is supposition that is strongly informed by evidence from the past. I think this year helped prove that Audi deserves to be on top, though. Maybe if they arrive with near-identical cars and go even more hammer and tongs for 24 hours, may the best one win, that would satisfy your hope? I find it really difficult to imagine them coming up with a new car that is inferior to the 908 in any dramatic way.

Again, yes and no (or no and yes). Personally I don't actually think that this year proved that Audi deserved to be on top - not car-wise - but tactically and team-wise - for sure that was the case. I think Audi had some breaks and then built on those to make their own luck - if they hadn't I firmly believe they would have lost the race by several laps.

But as to your thoughts on near-identical cars and a hammer and tongs race - yep, that sounds good to me. We nearly had it this year - we can only hope that we really get it next year.

[Martin Haven]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

as to your thoughts on near-identical cars and a hammer and tongs race - yep, that sounds good to me. We nearly had it this year - we can only hope that we really get it next year.

I think Reinhold Joest would be with you on that one as well... after all, he hardly shrank from the challenge of beating the Rothmans Porsches with his own cars did he? And managed to trounce them twice in a row...

But, unless Audi decides to sell their new cars in the way Porsche did, we'll just have to deal with apples versus oranges, some pears... and the odd lemon

[Aysedasi]

Nicely put Martin, fortumately we all know just how important 5 pieces of fruit every day are.......

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by cmk

DJ, Virgo did not get a podium in GT2 - the engine died at something like hour 19 or hour 20. BMS was 2nd, Farnbacher 3rd (so still each of Michelin, Pirelli and Dunlop on the podium).

I think Peugeot lost their best shot for a meaningful win. If Audi comes back with a new car (as we know they won't return with the R10) then they should have produced a better car than the 908 by this stage. If they don't, well, the Peugeot win will have even less clout than those works Audi wins, cause in the height of the R8 era there was never such a dramatic pace disparity between works and privateers.

Ooops yeah I forgot the Virgo car died and they didn't quite make it.

They still ran well and proved they are one of the better Ferrari teams in the World, on Dunlops no less.

I think Audi will be back, why not? Le Mans is only getting bigger and more important than ever in the grand scheme of things.

Why drop down to GT1 or even GT2 and actually you can do both. Its not like Porsche all of sudden stop supporting the Turbo GT2 cars when they built and ran the GT1 and GT1-Evo cars, clearly.

America is still the unconquered Diesel market and they are a luxo make. You would think somebody is not going to let VW AG dominate the mid market and high end Diesel markets..

But I digress...

I think you will see a coupe based visually on the R8 street car and have a direct link, something they haven't been able to do for marketing reasons.

The new NSX has been caught testing on the 'Ring, so Acura too will have a direct link on the showroom to their high-tech closed GT car too and it should be a whale of a show, especially if Toyota enters, the stakes only get, higher from here on out.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

A lot of logic, I'll give you that, but a lot of supposition too. I guess it's the now very stroing desire in me to see Audi toppled. The saving grace this year at Le Mans was that they really had to work for it. I don't want them arriving with advantages.....

But you're discounting the might of Toyota and Honda in terms of technology.

Diesels will not have it their own way and if the adjustments made to the rules make sense, where Prodrive/Lola and DOME were able to close the performance gap to almost nothing, big money Japanese OEM's will slam that gap shut and take it at least two notches further.

I think you'll see "Power To Pass" in both the Toyota and Acura, the technology in electric engines and high capacity caps will allow this to happen and keep weight down, at least no heavier than a modern diesel race car.

Trust me, if a couple of 40hp electronic motors can push a Lexus GS400hs up to 30mph on battery power alone, it should have NO problem pushing a car down pit road or during safety car/yellow conditions, what fuel advantage with diesel, when your not even using the IC engine to run the car???

One more venture slight off-topic -

Benz has shown a 2.4L Des-Otto turbocharged 4 cylinder gas engine that has no problem pushing a large S class Benz around, smartly.

I have a STRONG feeling Benz will push the development of this next generation gas engine with the help of motorsports and the only series/race you can showcase this kind of technology; Le Mans (ALMS/LMS)

The Genie is out of the bottle and we're about to see an era in Sportscar that finally blow that Rose colored sheen off the Group C era.

[Aysedasi]

Personally, I think it will take an awful lot to blow if that sheen, but I'm more than happy to see it happen.....

[henk4]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

One more venture slight off-topic -

Benz has shown a 2.4L Des-Otto turbocharged 4 cylinder gas engine that has no problem pushing a large S class Benz around, smartly.

it is an 1.8 liter actually, and sounds pretty much like a diesel....(from the outside)

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by henk4

it is an 1.8 liter actually, and sounds pretty much like a diesel....(from the outside)

But it runs on GAS....

That is the key, the way our infrastructure works Diesel as long as it comes from oil products will cost more. If our government gets behind a program to bring more bio-diesel to the market, more diesel models will be sold here, but that's not a given.

GAS is available everywhere and if you can get diesel MPG out of a GAS engine, it will cost less overall to develop and work because you won't need any after-treatments to the exhaust gases.

But anyway, its the future and GM has shown a motor just like that, but it wasn't turbocharged.

Back on Topic... Sorry

[chewymonster]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

But you're discounting the might of Toyota and Honda in terms of technology.

Diesels will not have it their own way and if the adjustments made to the rules make sense, where Prodrive/Lola and DOME were able to close the performance gap to almost nothing, big money Japanese OEM's will slam that gap shut and take it at least two notches further.

I think you'll see "Power To Pass" in both the Toyota and Acura, the technology in electric engines and high capacity caps will allow this to happen and keep weight down, at least no heavier than a modern diesel race car.

Trust me, if a couple of 40hp electronic motors can push a Lexus GS400hs up to 30mph on battery power alone, it should have NO problem pushing a car down pit road or during safety car/yellow conditions, what fuel advantage with diesel, when your not even using the IC engine to run the car???

One more venture slight off-topic -

Benz has shown a 2.4L Des-Otto turbocharged 4 cylinder gas engine that has no problem pushing a large S class Benz around, smartly.

I have a STRONG feeling Benz will push the development of this next generation gas engine with the help of motorsports and the only series/race you can showcase this kind of technology; Le Mans (ALMS/LMS)

The Genie is out of the bottle and we're about to see an era in Sportscar that finally blow that Rose colored sheen off the Group C era.

Audi/VW have been working on HCCI engines as well for some time already. They promise best of both worlds, but so far they are quite some time away from production.

You would save some fuel by running electric only, but you wouldn't be able to roll all that much. Chevy tried using some road tech (cylinder deactivation) but it didn't work on its race car. And you wouldn't be having a full size gas engine with a hybrid, the gas engine would have to be smaller.

In racing, the hybrid would be used to boost performance, and get some extra fuel economy from running a smaller engine. If anything, you can always add some electric motors to a diesel.