Air conditioning in competition cars?

[Alex Laidlaw]

I am trying to find an effective solution for cooling the cockpit of a stage rally car. The car is a historic car running in modern events with fairly loose regulations, so for the sake of argument any solution would be eligible. We don't want to go down the conventional route of large air scoops or any cosmetic modifications to the exterior and running with the windows open is too hot (and highly inefficient).

A small air conditioning system would seem to fit the bill ideally, obviously this will come a price, but when you've got a third of the power of the opposition outright speed is not a main priority, we're mainly doing it for fun and the car also competes in long distance road rallies. Apart from the issue of power loss and additional weight space is a major issue. I think trying to fit a road car system is going to be a non-starter with only 100 bhp and almost no engine bay space (although plenty of space in the rear) does anybody make a compact unit that might do the job?

[twinwebbers]

I know in the Australian v8 Supercar championship the Paul Morris Motorsport guys run an electrical powered unit in their cars which they developed themselves. It was a pretty schmick unit from memory.

[AU N EGL]

Cool Suite and ice / water box ?

[neiltb]

i remember driving a daihatsu charade in oz that had air and about 55bhp, you had to be sure to turn it off to overtake!

Is the cabin small/sealed well, that would require a smaller system that would rob less power. how cool do you want it to get will impact this too.

Make your own electrical one from an old fridge! Small car unit (toyota yaris etc) might fit the bill?

[Clive Brown]

Air condition the driver / navigator ; cool suits and cooled helmets , just like they use in NASCAR ! Why cool the whole of the interior of the car , when it's only its occupants that need cooling ?

[AU N EGL]

Even if you air con the cockpit, the drivers are still in suites with body temps well over 100*F

Use a Cool suite and helmet.

[Adam43]

Or take it like a man.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by twinwebbers

I know in the Australian v8 Supercar championship the Paul Morris Motorsport guys run an electrical powered unit in their cars which they developed themselves. It was a pretty schmick unit from memory.

Here is the article.

[Alex Laidlaw]

Cooling the driver is an interesting option, it doesn't really suit our situation though, the price is prohibitive (we're basically stuck to making things ourselves or scrounging things for free) and wearing suits would be undesirable for the long distance road rallies the car may also do at some stage.

The rally in question is the Barbados Rally, very hot rough short tarmac stages, so possibly a small air con system could be used to bring the temperature down between stages and not actually used during competition.

[TWRv12]

Isn't DTM or Sportscars bringing in a rule where the outside and inside temp difference can't be more than 10C?

Some of those small 600cc Japanese cars must have very small aircon units that might be suitable.

[Casper]

You don't need a small one, in actual fact the power loss is not affected by the cooling capacity more the compressor size or type. You want the biggest condensor and evaporater you can fit in that climate. If it is an uncommon model you have and it sounds like it is, have a look in scrap yards for an old under dash unit and find a compressor off the newest car possible as they consume less power than the older models.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

Isn't DTM or Sportscars bringing in a rule where the outside and inside temp difference can't be more than 10C?

Some of those small 600cc Japanese cars must have very small aircon units that might be suitable.

Would've liked to see them enforce that rule for the early Britcar races this year!

[AU N EGL]

Barbados is not that hot. Cool Atlantic or trade wind breezes.

If your car is that small you will need all the HP you can get.

Maybe just some extra fans blowing on the passengers.

on an other note, No Race suits ? in a race / rally? No fricken way do I ever get into a race car without waring my fire suit, no matter what the temps are.

and a mountain rally? eek.

[Alex Laidlaw]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Barbados is not that hot. Cool Atlantic or trade wind breezes.

I've never been there and I am not convinced about the need for it either, though the report from last year was rather different.

on an other note, No Race suits ? in a race / rally? No fricken way do I ever get into a race car without waring my fire suit, no matter what the temps are.

Full fire retardant clothing is worn for stage rallying (Barbados). They are not worn for road rallies though.

[Al Weyman]

There is a tiny little unit in my daughters Colt CRZ Coupe and it works a treat.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Alex Laidlaw

I've never been there and I am not convinced about the need for it either, though the report from last year was rather different.

Depends on what you think is HOT.

Full fire retardant clothing is worn for stage rallying (Barbados). They are not worn for road rallies though.

Fire suits have another function. Place for your sponsors names, and pictures and or just ppl looking at you before or after the stage.

PPL never count on crashes. Fire suits add protection in crashes just from scrapes and bumps too.

Fires suits show a degree of professionalism.

or just rent a car from the airport car rental place. or a jeep with a roll bar. and drive it as is.

for just a road rally, I would not even both doing any modifications, expect change to fresh brake fluid and new brake pads. air con should be a moot point But that is just me.

[Alex Laidlaw]

Turning up at a road rally with fire proof overalls would make you look like a complete pillock and make it that bit harder to convince the fuzz that you're a law abiding citizen. Also worth noting we're not just talking about do 12 cars/one night events, the shell we're currently working on did 15000 miles in one rally through South America, despite being very well prepared and extensively strengthened and protected before the rally it was beaten to bits.

[Rubinho]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

Isn't DTM or Sportscars bringing in a rule where the outside and inside temp difference can't be more than 10C?

At Le Mans, cockpit temperature cannot be more than 32degrees with AC or >10degrees above ambient without AC. Cars with AC get a restrictor break.

Obviously the AC doesn't need to be on all the time and using some control strategies, the restrictor break can be used to quite an advantage.

[Jeff 8]

The bonus with using aircon is it will pressurise the cabin and reduce the dust getting in.

Why do they not let you have a cool cabin in DTM?

Jeff

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Jeff 8

The bonus with using aircon is it will pressurise the cabin and reduce the dust getting in.

Why do they not let you have a cool cabin in DTM?

Jeff

Not if the air is recirculated. In a rally recirculating the air can be advantagous in suppressing the dust.