The Six Hundread...

Hazza · 12 Jun 2008, 06:37 (Ref:2226651)

Prototype MotoGP2 class...what do we think?

I think it's good IF there are manufacturers involved at some point. Anything is better than the current Aprillia cup we have now. But don't ditch the 125s, please!

Gerben24 · 12 Jun 2008, 07:11 (Ref:2226664)

We'll have to wait and see, it could be good, it could be a dissaster.

I'm having a few reservations:

I like the Aprilia-cup (where a KTM is leading the championship).

Isn't 600cc to close to 800cc?

Why would a factory competing in WSBK, WSS (showing off it's roadbikes) and Motogp want to build another prototype bike to compete in a class which a non-diehard-fan doesn't care about?

My fence is quite comfortable, I'm staying put at the moment.

Option1 · 12 Jun 2008, 13:46 (Ref:2226924)

I'm ambivalent about it. I've always loved the 250 class and the wild, close racing it often had. However, if the numbers are falling away then they have an issue that needs to be addressed.

NOW, having said that - the numbers in the MotoGP class are in even worse shape. That's the class where they should be addressing issues!

Just my $0.67 (after inflation and taxes)

Neil

Hazza · 12 Jun 2008, 23:30 (Ref:2227416)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Option1

Just my $0.67 (after inflation and taxes)

Gotta do your bit for Working Families.

**gomick** · 13 Jun 2008, 01:49 (Ref:2227446)

i reckon a 400/450 (half of motogp) prototype would be good, cant steal supersport from wsbk... though saying that, would the manufacturers want to sell these bikes on the road???

Gerben24 · 13 Jun 2008, 06:56 (Ref:2227516)

I was thinking 400-450cc would be a better solution (250cc was half of Gp500 class, 400 should be half of motogp class).

I don't know if a Motogp-2 class is very attractive for marketing reasons, no matter what the cc-contents is going to be.

That is why they will try to keep costs down and you guessed it, there is talk of a standard ECU, which is good, but is does limit the prototype bit of the bike in my eyes.

JohnnyFiama · 13 Jun 2008, 07:24 (Ref:2227527)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerben24

I was thinking 400-450cc would be a better solution

That would be good, there ought to be more 400cc screamer road bikes too (but then as an ex-VFR400 rider I might just be biased....).

chunder · 13 Jun 2008, 09:10 (Ref:2227630)

I can't really see how this class works unless you use proddie based engines

The only other way you can get it to work is to get a few manufacturures together to make a stock block type motor as they do in Nascar or V8's

But then that goes away form the individuality of the class, but then its hardly individual now is it. There are mainly two brands of bike which is awful.

Anotehr issue is that a 600 isnt going to be that far off of a 800 in lap times! Depending on what measure are put in to limit TC etc.

A decent SS motor is pushing 150hp right now, that is enough to smoke that rear, the class might end up being better to watch!!

Seriously though I think they should look at maybe using stock block engines with standard ECU, no TC. Then HAVE to use a pattern frame from Harris, ROC, etc. No road frames.

Gerben24 · 30 Jul 2008, 14:31 (Ref:2260346)

First 600GP concept!

JohnnyFiama · 31 Jul 2008, 07:26 (Ref:2260761)

I love two strokes and still miss the 500s but I have to say I'm warming to this idea. Prototype bikes and production engines would seem to be the logical way to go. It would differentiate the class from Supersport and keep costs down.

It could be very exciting, lots of small chassis manufacturers could buy Honda / Yamaha / Suzuki engines and be competitive. How cool would a Triumph "MotoGP2" bike be? It could generate a lot of interest and provide a more logical feeder class for MotoGP.

Gerben24 · 31 Jul 2008, 10:40 (Ref:2260858)

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

Would be great to see Moriwaki back on the grid, but also WCM (if they still exist) and why not the people from motoczysz (I'm dreaming I know).

Maybe this would also be a way back for Team Roberts.

It could also be the way into the GP-paddock for teams like Ten Kate. They wouldn't be allowed in this series during the first season, but I don't think they are in a hurry and there is still interest to go into Motogp.

racer69 · 5 Aug 2008, 06:51 (Ref:2263555)

How can Dorna get away with production-based parts on their motorcycles, especially given the WCM saga of a few years back.

What is FGSport likely to do?

chunder · 5 Aug 2008, 08:28 (Ref:2263611)

I dont think Flammini can do much as it is only the engine that s supposed to be production based.

If the teams were just doing a Formula Extreme style class, then I think they would have cause for complaint.

But even Flammini know that 4 strokes are the way forward. Their Superport class is in rude health without full on factory teams anyway, guys like Ten Kate, Yamaha Germany and the like will not be going anywhere I should imagine!

jhansen · 11 Dec 2008, 16:22 (Ref:2352810)

The rules are out:

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Dec/081211a.htm

600cc engines with prototype chassis. No production swingarms, fuel tanks or bodywork. Minimum weight for a 4 cylinder is 135kg. 3 cylinder gets a 5kg weight break, 2 cylinder gets a 10kg weight break.

chunder · 11 Dec 2008, 18:00 (Ref:2352885)

They are allowed to run twins and triples then? That is new as far as I recall

Is that confirmed J?

jhansen · 12 Dec 2008, 01:36 (Ref:2353157)

Yes I believe that is confirmed.

Jeff 8 · 12 Dec 2008, 05:12 (Ref:2353210)

I like the 250s, no matter who the manufacturer is as long as the racing is good and close.

The two year wait for new manufacturers is a bit weird, like a closed shop. They are only guessing the existing ones would be interested. I don't see it will be very popular with the manufacturers, as it will cost more than 250s and they are too similar to MotoGP and may overlap in lap times.

The 400 may be a better thing, half size, less chance of outperforming the main event.

Jeff

JohnnyFiama · 12 Dec 2008, 13:39 (Ref:2353487)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunder

They are allowed to run twins and triples then? That is new as far as I recall

Triples? Hoorah! Triumph to win Moto2!

How about rotary engines? Bring back Norton!

djb · 12 Dec 2008, 18:43 (Ref:2353735)

funny, but as much as I personally enjoyed two strokes, the "Aprilia" dominating reality does make me look at this and figure, what the heck, at least there will be some other teams (diff makes I mean) that will be able to do well.

I do have always liked watching 250 races for the close racing, but this shouldnt hurt that, and will mean that (hopefully) that riders who in hte past have been at a disadvantage not being on the latest Aprilia may have more o f a chance to show their talent..

in any case, as I always say, from this armchair enthusiasts pt of view who cant change a darn thing anyway, I hope the racing is just as good and allows some smaller teams to be uup there and thus promote good developing riders...

I do however support the view of keeping 125s two-quackers , just from a money pt of view so that the costs are kept down to the minimum.

chunder · 13 Dec 2008, 14:02 (Ref:2354209)

For me the 250 class died last year when Dovi left, Honda stopped developing their bike after Dani moved up and in reality its been a one make class since then.

Only he genius of Dovi and Yuki kept Honda up there. Plus guys liek TrevorMorris who are clever 2 stroke guys.

I think the time is right for the change, it must come, look at MX, it hasnt made a huge difference there and their change was very swift, and trials.

GP is lagging behind! Piaggio might not like it but this is not WSBK, you cant hold the series to ransom here Italians!!

djb · 13 Dec 2008, 19:44 (Ref:2354348)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunder

look at MX, it hasnt made a huge difference there and their change was very swift, and trials.

you're going to laugh, but as I don't look at bike magazines and never read any motocross news, I didnt even know that mx has gone all four-stroke!!

what can I say, I dont get out much...

Dani Filth · 14 Dec 2008, 16:58 (Ref:2354739)

imo .. for the mx it has worked great and they even raced 2stroke vs 4stroke

EGG · 28 Dec 2008, 09:30 (Ref:2361760)

I don't know how many manufacturers would be interested in a prototype series which will only act as a feeder to motogp, but I guess we'll find out.
One thing the 250 series did do well was supply some of the best riders for motogp, moreso than wsbk, ama or bsb. I'm not sure what would happen if that changed, possibly there'd be fewer spanish/italian riders coming through.

chunder · 28 Dec 2008, 10:47 (Ref:2361784)

The only reason that Spaniards and Italians have been coming through is that racing is popular there, and with few other international sports to sponsor in Spain, the sponsorship has been a little easier to find.

Italy has always provided feeders for GP racing, but not so much now, there are still talented Italians but they pretty up sticks and race in Spain as soon as they can!!