"Time for Bernie to go" - Di Montezemolo

[JeremySmith]

Yes...

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

When his mate Max got in he persauded him to sell him the 100 year rights which effectively assigned the revenue to Bernie well after his retirement age.

This is the bit that I've never understood. Why would a sporting body ever assign the TV rights to their premier sport to anyone for 100 years ? Is there precedent or a parallel on a similar scale for anything like this anywhere in the world.

[Tehillim]

Originally Posted by davyboy

This is the bit that I've never understood. Why would a sporting body ever assign the TV rights to their premier sport to anyone for 100 years ? Is there precedent or a parallel on a similar scale for anything like this anywhere in the world.

Isn't there a rumour that Max's bank account swelled considerably after the deal (I've heard figures of $300M), he moved to tax free Monaco not long afterwards.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Tehillim

Isn't there a rumour that Max's bank account swelled considerably after the deal (I've heard figures of $300M), he moved to tax free Monaco not long afterwards.

I believe so. Didn't Bernie give him a 'gift' of some sort for his friendship and loyalty ? Its the kind of thing that goes on in a banana republic.

[duke_toaster]

Didn't Herr Mosley claim that living in Monaco was protection from European arrest warrants should there be a fatal accident? Why would anyone want to prosecute him should one happen?

[ghinzani]

Originally Posted by ThaRobster

I think they'll be looking at how Palmer does with Formula 2. He already runs two successful domestic series (FPA and British Superbikes), F2 should give an indication at how he handles an international series, maybe with a view to stepping up?

.

Oh God no, hes just as bent as Bernie. From one crook to another. No thanks.. I'd rather put Geoffrey Archer in charge to be honest.

[Adam43]

I must admit I know nothing of Max's bank account. I'm impressed you do, or maybe you have a link to something substantial because you are alleging something quite serious. Further this isn't down the pub, this is a public forum.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

I must admit I know nothing of Max's bank account. I'm impressed you do, or maybe you have a link to something substantial because you are alleging something quite serious. Further this isn't down the pub, this is a public forum.

I didn't think he was alleging anything here. Isn't he talking about a rumor he heard ?

[Teretonga]

The rumour has been around for a while and has been published by far more significant people than ten tenths without adverse affects.
F1 has al ong history of backroom deals.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by davyboy

I didn't think he was alleging anything here. Isn't he talking about a rumor he heard ?

Well done, you should be on Have I Got News For You.

Originally Posted by Teretonga

The rumour has been around for a while and has been published by far more significant people than ten tenths without adverse affects.
F1 has al ong history of backroom deals.

Please link to one, or reference one. It shouldn't be difficult. Then we can judge it correctly rather than this chinese whisper.

[Teretonga]

Thats a fair call Adam.
I have heard the rumour several times in several quarters including some forums but you would be lucky to see it in black and white on an authoritative direct link.

[Tehillim]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Well done, you should be on Have I Got News For You.Please link to one, or reference one. It shouldn't be difficult. Then we can judge it correctly rather than this chinese whisper.

What's the issue with discussing a widespread rumour?

[Tehillim]

Here is a link to the rumour:-

http://www.sportspromedia.com/mosley.htm

In 2004 there was certainly one great change in Mosley’s life when he finally became independently wealthy. It is believed he received a gratis payment from Bernie Ecclestone of US$300 million as a token of his appreciation. The influx of money signalled a move to the tax haven of Monaco. In England he would have paid 40 per cent tax on the windfall; in Monaco nothing. So in March 2004 Mosley made the decision to relocate there from London. But instead of coming clean and saying he was leaving England for tax reasons, he concocted the most amazing (and untrue) story: he claimed to have been advised that a fatal accident in a race event under FIA jurisdiction within the European Union could result in his arrest. It followed the introduction of a new European arrest warrant. Mosley said: “I have been advised that it would be prudent to relocate outside EU jurisdiction.” It was the most amazing nonsense, swallowed by just about everyone. Of course it would have been embarrassing should Ecclestone’s payment to him have become public.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Tehillim

What's the issue with discussing a widespread rumour?

Now you made the effort to prove it is 'widespread' and again clarified it is a rumour, then nothing. If no one is prepared to do that then it is. We are not one of those forums where you can go round just saying anything. In this case a moderator (me) asked for clarification on a point, which in theory was easy to do. It took you only 18 minutes at the most between your two posts to find an article in the widespread "SportsPro" magazine. Thank you for that.

For interest and for further context, SportsPro magazine is related to Rubython's BusinessF1 magazine from a few years ago.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by davyboy

This is the bit that I've never understood. Why would a sporting body ever assign the TV rights to their premier sport to anyone for 100 years ? Is there precedent or a parallel on a similar scale for anything like this anywhere in the world.

Simply go to Wikipedia (ref. Max Mosley) where there is one explanation of the events leading to the 100yr contract...

[ivanalesi]

If you buy F1, as CVC did, you're receiving the 100 year contract. Which is in my opinion a much much better idea then setting up a new championship! But this is not the problem, the "spend it all culture" is what makes F1 vulnerable.
What is remarkable to me, is that CVC never tried to trim costs and make any changes. It's all Bernie himself, they rely on his expertise and never add any fresh ideas, on the other hand it may be dangerous if they do

[Teretonga]

Bernie is contracted (as I understand it) to work/consult/manage the investment for CVC.

Max's letter to Luca is interesting at the end where he says (in effect) that if the manufacturers don't like it the FIA way they (the manufacturers) may start their own championship and the FIA will recognise it (!)

This is typical of Max. Yes you can do your way and we will not stand in your way, while knowing all along that the costs and likelihood of success in the face of the 'official FIA way F1 championship' is almost nil.

The new F2 is an example of what Max would do to F1 if the manufacturers went their own way....
You would have a ' FIA World Drivers Championship' with limited 'spec' cars or components (some variety) plus a 'spec' engine with fixed coasts and components, run for less than 20-30 million a year per team and billed as the world championship, TV contracts, 70-80% revenue to the teams with about 20-30% to the FIA, 20 races a year and fields of 24 cars.

The manufacturers could not create a championship that would cut it in the face of that for either numbers nor costs. They would participate on Max's terms or leave.... but 'F1' would survive. My bet is that McLaren, Ferrari and Williams, Sauber, Dave Richards, etc would stay with Max's version and the manufacturers alternative would never get off the ground.

The best teams could generate at least 40 million a year in sponsorship revenue making it a very profitable business with the lower engineering costs, more to spend on the extra's.

[ivanalesi]

May be it's addressed to Bernie/CVC, give more revenue to the teams or they will setup a new championship with our blessing!

[old man]

The thing that has always puzzled me is that the signatories of the original Concord agreement that led to the 100 year deal have allowed what is now FOM to have such a large share of the cake.
The plan was for FOCA to negotiate contracts for the benefit of the teams and those original teams agreed through the deal to provide a substantial grid in return. Those original teams were Williams, McLaren, Brabham, Lotus, Shadow, Tyrell, Ferrari and probably others I have missed, all run by hard headed business men. How did they finish up with a bad deal where FOM got about 50% of the income with the rest split between them? It is easy to say that they were too busy racing to notice the way it was manouvered but that is what seems to have happened.
Now the manufacturers are involved they want to redress the balance, quite rightly IMO but it is obviously not an easy thing to unpick

[Marbot]

You've got to admit that Bernie has a way with words.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72805

[Teretonga]

Yes...

"but maybe now that we have really managed to reduce the costs a lot, we will be able to pay them less money!"

And
"I am pleased we have slicks again for a start, but I don't like the small rear wings. But let's see if they do the job."

And
"Well I've never been in favour of the KERS, so it is not good to get me involved in that discussion. I don't think, whatever system they use in F1, it will be used in road cars. People really don't know how much it is going to cost and it could escalate the costs - we are trying to reduce the costs."

And this is interesting:
"Some of them have signed already – no dramas."

McLaren Williams and Tyrrell refused to sign the Concorde in the late 90's over the 100yr rights issue and increased percentages to Bernies business but the rest did including Renault and Ferrrari. That left Ron, Ken, and Frank out in the cold. That was when Ferrari got a special deal, and power swung from the constructors back to the FIA, Max....and Bernie.

I'm less impressed with:

" Most times when people get older, they become a bit senile. He has just caught it a bit earlier, this is all."

[Bononi]

Well, the questions are ingenious...

[old man]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

McLaren Williams and Tyrrell refused to sign the Concorde in the late 90's over the 100yr rights issue and increased percentages to Bernies business but the rest did including Renault and Ferrrari. That left Ron, Ken, and Frank out in the cold. That was when Ferrari got a special deal, and power swung from the constructors back to the FIA, Max....and Bernie.

So is that how the financial inbalance set in? I don't recall the detail but in this case the "newer" teams should perhaps have listened to the experienced advice of Ken, Frank and Ron. Does anyone know of a book that covers this apect of the sport, it would be a fascinating read IMO?

[davyboy]

Classy don't you think ?

[Bononi]

Naturally.