Group C 1991-1992 unborn, unraced sportscar projects

yuragagarin1961 · 27 Feb 2009, 14:19 (Ref:2405438)

Hi,

maybe it's a good idea to make a compiling list of ill-fated World Championship Group C. sportscars from 1990-1991, since they were quite a few, and the bits of knowledge about them is a bit too spread. Why not putting some of them together, tell about them and attach possible images and recreate a colourful 'what could have been grid'?

I would start with:

1991_ROC-Oreca...
1991_March 92S
1991_Allard...
1991_BRM P351
1991_Konrad-Lamborghini KM011
1991_Brun-Judd C91
1991_Gebhardt (?)
1991_Spice Lamborghini SE90C
1991_Richard Lloyd-Peter Elleray-Peter Stevens Garage Italiya Isuzu V12
1991_Schuppan-Lola-Isuzu V12
1991_Courage
1992_Thomsom -wing alla F1, according to those who seem to recall a picture of it-

Which would you add?

yuragagarin1961 · 27 Feb 2009, 18:20 (Ref:2405558)

Plus the very wonderful

Alfa Romeo SE048

...

**chunterer** · 27 Feb 2009, 21:04 (Ref:2405662)

Oooh prettty caaar....

Would look even better without the rear wheel aero covers!!

Good thread

yuragagarin1961 · 27 Feb 2009, 22:27 (Ref:2405722)

The Nissan P35 would come a little later (1993)

More?

More on any of the previously listed?

yuragagarin1961 · 28 Feb 2009, 11:21 (Ref:2406008)

The Sauber Mercedes C292...

I didn't think this thread was to be of so little interest to nearly everyone.

**chunterer** · 28 Feb 2009, 11:40 (Ref:2406017)

Well there is a highly suported 'Sportscar & GT Racing' sub forum as you may have noticed and often that section gets more sportscar traffic. Give it time, i'm sure people will find this shortly.

bigears · 1 Mar 2009, 16:42 (Ref:2406727)

yuragagarin1961 · 1 Mar 2009, 17:27 (Ref:2406761)

The 905E2...

KA · 2 Mar 2009, 13:37 (Ref:2407360)

These do divide very much into two categories- the few that actually raced (however briefly!), such as the Brun, Konrad, BRM and Allard and those that never got onto a starting grid. I think the only ones I ever saw at the time were the BRM (it ran briefly during qualifying at Silverstone) and a showcar version of the Allard at an Autosport International exhibition at Birmingham -think it was in Momo colours. I'll have a look to see if I've got any pics- I think I've got one of the BRM at least

Thundersports · 3 Mar 2009, 10:01 (Ref:2407917)

Good thread I wasn't aware of the Alfa or have forgotten about it what a great looking car, like all these things with Group C we didn't realise how lucky we were at the time each time I see them race in Historics I keep having to remind myself that most of them are over 20 years old.............

The Shrew · 3 Mar 2009, 16:10 (Ref:2408206)

Well that Alfa is one hell of a nice looking car.

Ive always been a huge fan of Group C cars although i cant really remember much about them as i was only a young pup at the time. One thing ive always wondered is why did the series stop ? Seems strange as it has or seems to have a huge following and the cars dont look dated even now.

Dan Friel · 3 Mar 2009, 17:44 (Ref:2408274)

Never knew that the Alfa existed..

I remember going to the WSCC race at Silverstone and waiting for the BRM to appear. Didn't it expire in the warm up?? Gebhardt rumbled around for a few laps though..

yuragagarin1961 · 3 Mar 2009, 18:35 (Ref:2408301)

Does any body have any other pictures of the Spice Lamborghini SE90C, rather than this one?

thank you.

the sniper · 4 Mar 2009, 20:05 (Ref:2409098)

I only just came across this thread by chance. I've never heard of many of these projects, especially the Alfa Romeo one! Very interesting, thanks.

I'm guessing many of these never made it because of the economic downturn of the early 90's (and probably the involvement of Max and Bernie in the sportscar downfall)?

EDIT: Too bad more people in the Sportscar forum won't have seen this, any chance it could be temporarily moved there to get some more attention?

**chunterer** · 4 Mar 2009, 20:59 (Ref:2409127)

With the advent of tags in the search option, people should find it ok?

We'll leave it where it is for now as it has picked up the pace in the last few days.

yuragagarin1961 · 4 Mar 2009, 21:33 (Ref:2409145)

The Konrad Lamborghini KM011; note the W of Walter Wolf in the nose.

This car would have been developed at TC Prototypes at Wellinborough, and it would have had a successor -not destined for Konrad nor to be powered by Lamborghini neccessarily- which would have had a nose section with a F1 style wing.

Anybody ever saw a picture of this car, or its scale model? In late 1991 or early 1992 Autosports maybe?

mountainstar · 4 Mar 2009, 23:35 (Ref:2409223)

This might be the good basis for a book. I knew there were a few unrealized Group C projects but didn't realize there were so many.

ensign14 · 5 Mar 2009, 09:19 (Ref:2409327)

There were some others in earlier years as well, like the GKW. But had all these made the grid regularly we might have had a very decent series.

KA · 5 Mar 2009, 12:02 (Ref:2409482)

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuragagarin1961

Does any body have any other pictures of the Spice Lamborghini SE90C, rather than this one?

thank you.

Going slightly away from the topic, but the Spice wasn't the first try at a Lamborghini-powered Group C car of course- Going back a couple of years, before the 3.5 litre regs came in, UK Lamborghini importer Portman were involved in the Spice/Tiga-Lamborghini project which only raced once at the end of '86

http://www.qv500.com/lamborghiniqvxp1.php

Going back to the 1990 Spice Lambo project, I've got a very vague memory that it was announced at the Donington race that year- is that where the pic comes from? I thought there was a car on show there? The team's Cosworth-powered race cars also had 'ASK' backing at Donington
http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-09-02-021.jpg

yuragagarin1961 · 5 Mar 2009, 18:43 (Ref:2409770)

Donington indeed; sorry for the poor quality of this scan, but it's the only proof I've got. There must be good pictures of this car somewhere, since this seems to be a real presentation in a decent on purpose built show room, ready for plenty of journalists to come.

**chunterer** · 5 Mar 2009, 20:00 (Ref:2409812)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

Going back a couple of years, before the 3.5 litre regs came in, UK Lamborghini importer Portman were involved in the Spice/Tiga-Lamborghini project which only raced once at the end of '86

http://www.qv500.com/lamborghiniqvxp1.php

Was this the same car that came out of the ashes of the CC Motorsport built Lamborghini project that was planned for 1985 or 86?

KA · 6 Mar 2009, 12:33 (Ref:2410323)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Was this the same car that came out of the ashes of the CC Motorsport built Lamborghini project that was planned for 1985 or 86?

The very same- commissioned by Portman Lamborghini and built/prepared by CC, but only raced once as the sponsorship deals never came together. I'm guessing on this- did CC run it for it's sole race outing at Kyalami at the end of '86. It ended up in the Haynes collection in Somerset , but I've got a suspicion it's moved on since?

yuragagarin1961 · 6 Mar 2009, 14:06 (Ref:2410390)

I am very sure it resides in Japan now, but I do not know who actually owns the car

JAG · 6 Mar 2009, 19:22 (Ref:2410556)

There was a proposed Lola HKS Mitsubishi 3.5 project for IMSA GTP for Andy Evans in 1993. This was based on a proposed F1 engine that was a little overweight (info from Mulsanne Mikes GTP book).

Another car was the Jaguar XJR-17, an IMSA Lights car with a 3.0 V6 (based on the XJR-10/11/16 turbo motor). It was a parts bin special converted XJR-16, and has since been converted back to XJR-16 spec.

Nissan were also looking to build a new IMSA GTP car based on the P35, but with the V6 turbo engine.

The359 · 6 Mar 2009, 23:01 (Ref:2410670)

The Alfa Romeo was in an exhibition of Italian cars in Torino last year.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/39749410@N00/2428523521/

Regarding the Gebhardt, Momo ran a car called the "C901" with an Audi Turbo in IMSA in 1991, while Gebhardt ran a Ford-powered "C91" in the SWC in 1992. Are these the same car?

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