[WTCC] Race 13 & 14 - Porto (POR), 5th July 2009

[Winchester]

Yet more dull racing from the WTCC on a track totally unsuited to touring cars, and punctuated occasionally by an accident "livening" things up.
Looks like BMW are trying to play the team game, but could learn a lot from Seat in that department.
I'm still looking forward to my trip to Brands in two weeks, but there is so much that could be done to improve this show. The organisers could take a tip or ten from Alan Gow and TOCA on how to put on a great TC series for the fans.
I still don't get why so little time is spent on actual racing. The pitlane opens 25 minutes before the race starts but in BTCC it's ten minutes from pit open to green flag lap! And the races ares till too short.
All in all a very disappointing weekend. I doubt the WTCC would have wanted to mark 100 races in this way...

[Les]

it is nice to have a mixture of circuits but these street circuits are just so narrow. You cannot overtake so all there is waiting for one car in front to smash and then it's carnage and you hopefully move up a couple of places. Not real racing in my book.

[touringlegend]

To me I believe the WTCC likes to kid on it is on a par with F1 or even the WRC. It's not. Seemed to be a lot of half full grandstands around the circuit.

[werner]

I agree Tarquini should have given his first place in race 1 to Huff for cutting the chicane. Speaking of the chicane: that was a lot safer compared to 2007. Not hard though. In 2007 it was ridiculous. Spectacular, but ridiculous.

Some drivers have to get their fingers slapped for the incident that took out Bennani. I saw some clearly double yellows waved at because of the Tarquini-Larini incident. They all went at almost full speed into the blind corner. Boardman should have been able to stop and avoid Bennani had he reacted to the flags properly.
I interprete Bennani's weird tour as him trying to see what kind of accident had happened, and with his mind focused on avoiding other cars, forgetting to take the corner on time.

About the incident with Tarquini and Larini: unlike the commentator I thought it was Larini's fault. Slowed down from letting Huff pass, he was just caught napping by Taquini. Then, when Tarquini had already stuck his nose in, he still tried to shot the door. It was to late, and they collided. A big shame, becuase it would have been one of the very few passes in the race that were not tactical.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by werner

Some drivers have to get their fingers slapped for the incident that took out Bennani. I saw some clearly double yellows waved at because of the Tarquini-Larini incident. They all went at almost full speed into the blind corner. Boardman should have been able to stop and avoid Bennani had he reacted to the flags properly.
I interprete Bennani's weird tour as him trying to see what kind of accident had happened, and with his mind focused on avoiding other cars, forgetting to take the corner on time.

But Bennani should have made sure the racing line was clear before coming back. I agree that Boardman was probably too fast, but it's still more Bennani's fault.

[werner]

Hmmm, entering the racingline from an abnormal angle in bad, but ignoring doublewaved yellows is unforgivable, and should be given a big penalty. We are talking about doublewaved flags. The rules state that in case of such a signal a driver must be able to come to a full stop within the visible part of the track, because it can be completely blocked. For instance with crawling, damaged or rejoining cars. But also with drivers exiting their damaged cars, or marschalls cleaning up. In such cases the results can be death. Boardman did risk the lives of people, Bennani at worst risked the cars of drivers that where out of order in the first place, since given the flags any drivers should be able to brake in time not to hit a very slow or even standing car. When I started writing this piece I felt Bennani was also at fault, but the more I think about it, the more I feel Bennani has hardly done anything wrong. He could not even look back properly, because the other cars came around a blind corner. But offcourse that is what the flags are for!

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Jon411

After the restart when everyone spread out I clearly must have fallen asleep

You're forgiven. During the whole of 2 races there was 0 passes in top 10 (not counting 2 half chances between team mates and Farfus and Yvan being let through).

Originally Posted by Icebaby

a mistake does not mean you escape punishment as for me the main point is he gained an unfair advantage.

Only thing that surprises me is how Tarquini keeps getting away with more blatant hits on the opposition and almost never picking up any penalty, let a lone a really harsh one like a drive through on a street track.

Btw I see Im not the only one that thinks Boardman was at least 50% the guilty party when him and Bennani collided. Lookes like he just kept his foot on the throttle even if yellow flags where waiving. If he had gone slower, there was plenty of room for 2 cars side by side, but with the speed he was carrying he couldn't even avoid drifting out in the corner and hitting Bennani. Blatant disregard for waved yellows? IMO definitly. After all, even without Bennani, how did he know for sure there wasn't a car around the corner? No way he could have avoided it if there was.

[Icebaby]

When seeing the Bennani/Boardman incident I did think 100% Bennani at fault however after reading comments I can see another view point to the speed drivers were entering the yellow falg incident. Boardman was not the only one going fast and just happened to be the driver going through at the time.

I was suprised Tarquini did not re-join like Larini as the damage was minimal.

The other incident not really touch on is Menu and after thinking back he does have a habit of smashing up the car when its painted in different art work, this appears a bad omen for him! ,Menu is looking out of sorts recently and either wins or bins it (not necessarly his fault may I add). My guess is one of the chevy drivers will not be there next year and a certain BTCC driver known to RML is waiting in the wings....

[Blackadder]

Originally Posted by MikeD

I think people are being a little too harsh on Farfus. He's the most winning driver in WTCC, and now he's got the complete backing of all the BMW teams & drivers. That will force him to drive more mature and strategic - especially after SEAT replied BMWs teamorders from race 1 with teamorders helping Yvan Muller in race 2.

But Yvan Muller is so good and so consistent that it will be tough to catch him, but after watching Loeb loosing a very secure lead in the WRC, then you never know.

You are kidding me; force him to drive more maturely and strategically!!!!!.....

Are we are talking about the same driver here???!!! This is the Brazilian who has been causing havoc since his days with Alfa.... Punt here, shunt there....oops, sorry old chap.....

Macau; Tarquini - bang, Brno; Priaulx - crash, Menu; Oporto - wallop!, shall I go on?....

Why oh why does BMW back such a lame horse?

Can you imagine Michael Schumacher having to drop several places in order to give points to lets say Rubens Barrichello because of team orders... no way, no way....

BMW have become farcical with their clumsy so called Team order decisions...... there's no 'I' in TEAM !!!!

And as for Driver backing, let's wait and see....not sure that Jorg and Andy are over the moon....

Rant over

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Blackadder

Why oh why does BMW back such a lame horse?

Well, he's hardly a lame horse. At times his laptimes are heads and shoulders ahead of great drivers like AP & JM with the same equipment. His consistency relative "keep out of trouble" is quite spotty though, and I'm not sure that added pressure will be beneficial. In fact it might make things worse. After all, he did quite well for the first half of the season, but last 2 weekends, as the leading BMW nearing the end of the championship (increasing the weight on his shoulders), he is starting to become slightly erratic again. If I was BMW and I was forced to put all eggs in one basket, I'm not sure I would go with Farfus. But then again, BMW has screwed up so much this season, they probably dont have much of a chance anyway. If AF manages to keep it together for the rest of the season, he might very well be in contention for Macau. And if he doesn't, well, BMW was pretty much screwed in any case.

[stedevil]

Greate, forum screws up linebreaks again, and even post editing is out of order. :P

[Nortad]

Originally Posted by Winchester

Yet more dull racing from the WTCC on a track totally unsuited to touring cars, and punctuated occasionally by an accident "livening" things up.

oporto is just has suitable has macau, do you want that gone too? does a boring race in spa make it a bad circuit? ive driven most of the track in a roadcar when it was being opened up again fro traffic before it closes again for the historic races next weekend and its great fun.

ptcc races with has almost double the cars on the grid was full of action and had enough overtaking

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Nortad

oporto is just has suitable has macau, do you want that gone too?

Yes please!

[awrb]

Originally Posted by Nortad

oporto is just has suitable has macau, do you want that gone too?

Macau has the prestige. The WTCC needs it, if just for the history and to make the series look a bit credible in motorsport fans eyes.

Porto doesn't really have that, it's just a street circuit. I think it's good to have one street track in the series, adds a bit of variety, but it would be best just left at Macau.

[Nortad]

Originally Posted by awrb

Macau has the prestige. The WTCC needs it, if just for the history and to make the series look a bit credible in motorsport fans eyes.

Porto doesn't really have that, it's just a street circuit. I think it's good to have one street track in the series, adds a bit of variety, but it would be best just left at Macau.

the best places are for free, hence the half empty stands, 2 years ago got one of the highest spectator atendance ever in wtcc. Its right in the beach, has the beutiful city park in the middle. in terms of pure beuty it has almost all other tracks beaten.

oporto was a f1 circuit back in the 50s and 60s, how many f1 gp did macau have?

from wiki:

"
The 1958 event is remembered for an act of good sportsmanship by Stirling Moss. Moss came to the defense of fellow countryman (and title rival) Mike Hawthorn, who had run afoul of the stewards (and oncoming traffic) during an off-track excursion during the race. Moss persuaded the stewards to not disqualify Hawthorn, preserving second place, and 6 points, for Hawthorn, who would eventually win the drivers championship by 1 point over Moss."


"its just a street circuit"?...

politeness prevents me from writing the adquate answer to that

[awrb]

Originally Posted by Nortad

"its just a street circuit"?...

politeness prevents me from writing the adquate answer to that

Yes, Porto has history, I'm not denying that. But the Macau has the famous touring car race. Porto is a good track, just very badly suited to touring cars, so surely it would be better for both the WTCC and Porto to split, the WTCC go to a track which makes for good touring car racing, and Porto get a series which would be exciting on its circuit to go there.

[werner]

Like what series? And what defines a good touringcarcircuit? If you can't overtake in a touringcar, you can overtake in nothing (well nothing serious)

[awrb]

Originally Posted by werner

Like what series? And what defines a good touringcarcircuit? If you can't overtake in a touringcar, you can overtake in nothing (well nothing serious)

No, I'd quite agree, there aren't any series that would run well there, it's just not a very good course.

As for what makes a good touring car circuit, one where you can overtake. Not to easy to define I suppose, but it can be sorted by good old trial and error. Porto has been trialled on the WTCC calender and the races were boring. It was an error. Lets try somewhere else.

[helterskelter]

Has anyone seen the Priaulx-Farfus thing from Andy's point of view? He won all of the titles BMW has taken in the new Wtcc, he is a top driver and a long-time BMW man, and he's in 4th and has to give Farfus a way. Also, BMW lost some valuable constructors points, as Andy had to let Larini through, too. I've been told Yvan said that BMW are his favourite team! If you count Brno and Porto alone, Farfus has taken at least 20 points from Andy (but I believe even some more). Augusto gets a drive through, stops a race and he gets 11 points he didn't deserve as a reward. This is stupid IMO, and so thinks most of the paddock. You should have seen Andy get out of his car, he was absolutely mad!
I just can't believe they're treating Priaulx like the a newcomer. He was always faithful to BMW and won a lot of championships for them, actually all of them! I'm sorry, but I just can't stand it. The RBM guys worked hard, they were the best BMW team and car and they had to let Farfus through, a guy that was much slower and that had screwed up in Porto. I think Augusto is a great driver, but lacks exactly where Priaulx is superior compared to the others (with possibly the exception of Yvan Muller): mental strength. As Augusto himself said, if you're going to be a championship winner you can't just screw up the way I did in Brno. I interviewed him (should shortly be out) and that's what I told him, and he agreed. At least, we know why he turned left: he was trying to get nearer to the ideal line.

[helterskelter]

Ah by the way Félix should have been 2nd in Race 2 but had a broken semi-axle, in case you were wondering why he dropped positions in the last lap.

[stedevil]

After thinking it over a bit more the largest error IMO with BWMs tactical decision was that since Andy didnt finish in 3rd-4th in race 1, Yvan had a really easy road back into 2nd for race 2. With both Andy and Jürg ahead (and Tarquini out) the best Yvan could have got was 3rd with AP and JM in 1st & 2nd.

Any way you look at it, it was a really bad call.

[Hazard]

BMW's 'strategy' in Porto was appalling. They've tried to address the lack of strategy they've had so far which has given SEAT the advantage, but somehow went crazy and threw away more points than they could have gained, and even then put all their hopes on Augusto instead of sharing it between Jorg and Andy in race two - which was also very risky.

I hope they calm down a bit in the next race. They may have got Augusto in a better position, but if we get to the last race, he'll be the only one in the running surrounded by SEAT's...so it still won't work out for him when he gets Tarquinied* in Macau.

* To be an experienced and intelligent driver but cause crashes deliberately to remove other vehicles from the road.

[helterskelter]

I agree with Hazard. I think they put their hopes on Augusto because he's from BMW Team Germany. It's like they realized all of a sudden that Seat were giving team orders and started to do so, but in a funny way. Did anybody notice that they lost 2 constructors' points? Gonna be fun if they lose the championship for one point at the end of the year.
Even if Augusto goes to Macau with a chance to win the championship, I don't buy it that he's going to make 2 trouble-free races under such a pressure. He's definitely not Priaulx, nor Yvan Muller. He's Farfus! Wether he gets Tarquinied or not, he still doesn't have a chance IMO. I just hope they'll let Andy win, if he has the chance to, on home soil, at Brands... He deserves it, he got a couple of wins/podiums stolen this year...