My first circuit

[JamesTheSuperBlue]

Hi, I'm James

First time I've ever been on a forum like this, although I've always been interested in circuit layouts and have drawn some from time to time.

I have no sophisticated software and I haven't extensively planned anything. I have simply used Paint for my first circuit.

I love the idea of a long, sweeping S/F straight, so I have incorporated that. I have little else to say about the track really. I have tried to make it flow as fast as possible, although perhaps to the detriment of anything overly technical. I haven't consciously taken any inspiration from it from any other circuits, I was just playing about!

I welcome any constructive criticism. This is something that I'd like to become good at

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Welcome to My Tracks

Move the pitlane to the outside of the circuit and then we can discuss the rest.

Any ideas as to how big the circuit would be, there is a lot of line there.

[JamesTheSuperBlue]

Done!

I'm not too sure about length. It's not something that I thought about whilst I was drawing it, which was silly of me. You're right, there is a lot of track there - must be a good 4.5 miles? I might even be underestimating there.

[Quintin03]

Turn 1 and three seem to have their run off on another part of the track. I think that's no good idea. The rest of the track is briliant though.

A warm welcome from me though.

[JamesTheSuperBlue]

Originally Posted by Quintin03

Turn 1 and three seem to have their run off on another part of the track. I think that's no good idea. The rest of the track is briliant though.

A warm welcome from me though.

How do you mean? As in adjacent parts of the track are too close together? If that's what you meant, I cans ee where you're coming from! That was just how it turned out really

[ECW Dan Selby]

Yeh I think what he's suggesting is if it were to be a real track, the run off area would not be sufficient in to T1 as it would have to extend in to the next set of corners. Don't worry, I did this alot on my first few

Nice little track though, although I see what SBF meant by the length. Again, this is a problem I had in my first few. I had some massively long track with too many corners that was just a little out of proportion. Within a few tracks you'll get the hang of it!

Selby

[Roy4]

James, your first track is pretty good seeing it is your first design. The layout on the other hand is pretty good, it would work well if the track length was more than 4miles.

Other than what else I have just said, it's a good first track.

[dyewat808]

Originally Posted by Roy4

James, your first track is pretty good seeing it is your first design. The layout on the other hand is pretty good, it would work well if the track length was more than 4miles.

Other than what else I have just said, it's a good first track.

Agreed.

Great first track!

[JamesTheSuperBlue]

Thanks for the postive words so far!

Here is my 2nd attempt at a circuit.

I'm thinking that the shortest configuration would come out at around 2.7 miles. The second configuration would measure around 3.7 miles. I can see the full configuration measuring around 4.3 miles. Really these are just guesstimates and I'm more than likely some way off the mark!

[ScotsBrutesFan]

In terms of distance, more corners means longer track length. A corner is surprisingly long.

Try smoothing some of the tight bits.

On guessing track length, one method is to set a length for the pit straight, and from there scale or gauge off that what the total length might be.

[bio]

Hi, James,

let me join in the welcome commitee

I like your tracks, I can see that there is thought put in them and that you are most probably familiar with the basic concepts of laying out a track. I mean, as far as I, a total amateur with no real life experience whatsoever can judge

As for the drawing methods: Paint is just fine. If the track concept is good than it'll look just good drawn in Paint - if the concept is bad no CAD-wizardry will ever make it a good one

What is discussed/criticized most often here in this forum - IMHO:

- general layout -> does it make sense? (mine don't as i have learnt here a couple of times );

- the basic track data -> track length, racing direction, maybe altitude change, sometimes track width, location. It's hard to really judge a track without knowing its size - not neccesarily exactly, of course, although with saome of the software used here (like the favourite Google SketchUp, or +D Studio Max, or my two favourites, Ocad and Blender) it's easy to measure a track exactly. A track that looks just ravashing at, say, 4 miles length, might become an unracable one at 2.5 miles length - see, many of the corners will get absolutely different from the driver's point of view just by enlarging/reducing it. The same applies to the racing direction - sometimes it makes all the difference whether a track is raced clockwise or counter-clockwise. There are arguments about the "right" or "better" racing direction in My Tracks all the time - and how good there are!

- runoff areas and gravel traps. If we take our "business" here anything like seriously than these two are, indeed serious things. In real life, lives can depend on well designed runoff areas and gravel traps. The one and only Luiggi Speed, our full time bike correspondent from good old Puerto Rico can tell you all about this from the rider's point of view, since he is an avid bike racer himself, but I can tell you that a huge lot of this forum's inmates know a great deal about these issues, so you can safely rely on their opinions and ideas (I'm sadly not one of them ).

- location -> sometimes we like to place our imaginery tracks on real land, a spot somewhere on this planet. Google Maps and Google Earth are two good friends in such cases. Most of the urban street race layouts are done in Google Maps/Earth.

Oh, and almost forgot:

- the pitlane -> SBA will tell you all there is to know about it

Seeing your first two tracks, I don't think there's gonna be any problems for you -. you're gonna bring us fine tracks.

bio

[bio]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

A corner is surprisingly long.

TRUE!!!! Even today, though I'm surely over my 500th track, it tricks me at times...

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

On guessing track length, one method is to set a length for the pit straight, and from there scale or gauge off that what the total length might be.

What I like to do is determine a rough track length and then see how the straights measure with that track size. For example, seeing the first, rough layout concept, I say it should be around 5 kilometers, let's say, so the S/F straight should be around 900 meters long (experience in (gu)estimating by eye-measuring helps here a lot). Then I resize it in Ocad to be 5 kilometers long and check the S/F straight. If it's really around 900 meters (say, between 850 and 1000 meters) then it's OK. If not then I recalculate.

bio

[JamesTheSuperBlue]

Originally Posted by bio

TRUE!!!! Even today, though I'm surely over my 500th track, it tricks me at times...



What I like to do is determine a rough track length and then see how the straights measure with that track size. For example, seeing the first, rough layout concept, I say it should be around 5 kilometers, let's say, so the S/F straight should be around 900 meters long (experience in (gu)estimating by eye-measuring helps here a lot). Then I resize it in Ocad to be 5 kilometers long and check the S/F straight. If it's really around 900 meters (say, between 850 and 1000 meters) then it's OK. If not then I recalculate.

bio

Thanks for the advice and kind words

I was quite pleased with my first 2, but I have a lot to learn. I'm in the middle of writing a dissertation for my university degree at the moment, but once that's finished, I'd like to dedicate more time to this. I'm only using Paint to dip my toes in the water, and ideally I'd like to start using SketchUp soon.

Which programme gives the best results? Which are easiest to use? Are the programmes free?

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Sketch up is a free download, and with it you can make tacks as simple or as complicated as you line.

Single line drawings using the straights and Arc tools

Use the offset to make parallel lines, and maybe add a pitlane or gravel traps

Make the most outrageous designs like my April Foolishness which is truly 3D.

Sketchup allows it all....Oh and did I mention it's free

[JamesTheSuperBlue]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Sketch up is a free download, and with it you can make tacks as simple or as complicated as you line.

Single line drawings using the straights and Arc tools

Use the offset to make parallel lines, and maybe add a pitlane or gravel traps

Make the most outrageous designs like my April Foolishness which is truly 3D.

Sketchup allows it all....Oh and did I mention it's free

Thanks! I might download it and have a play around with it on Sunday. See what I can come up with! Might redo one of the above tracks using it.

[Quintin03]

One method that certainly shouldn't be underestimated is ofcourse the use of pencil and paper. Some of the best tracks around here were made using those ancient analog materials. But as Bio said: a track can look good whatever method you choose and none is the better. Only the amout of detail you want determines what method should be prefered.

[dyewat808]

Sketchup is a great program - almost built with track designing in mind! The arc and offset tools are invaluable in track design. I heartily recommend it.

[bio]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Sketch up is a free download, and with it you can make tacks as simple or as complicated as you line.

Single line drawings using the straights and Arc tools

Use the offset to make parallel lines, and maybe add a pitlane or gravel traps

Make the most outrageous designs like my April Foolishness which is truly 3D.

Sketchup allows it all....Oh and did I mention it's free

Well... I do thiunk SketchUp is a great tool and I found it a definite leap when i strated using it - but I'm not sure it's the right tool to start designing circuits. It's rather complicated at start - even if it's definitely easier to kick off with than most other CAD software, and even with all the superb SketchUp tutoring you're doing in that thread. A beginner might esily get lost in technicalities... Plus it requires some hardware, my PC - that's not even an old peace of junk - tended to slow down considerably when the design got intricate - e.g. Blender doesn't do that.

And, oh, you forgot to mention it's free

bio

[bio]

Originally Posted by JamesTheSuperBlue

Which programme gives the best results? Which are easiest to use? Are the programmes free?

There's really no way to give a definite answer on that one... Depends wholly on what you consider important. I guess Sketchup's main advantages are that it's free (right, SBF? ), it's fairly easy to se - once you get tha hang of it, and it's easy to create something really spectacular. As a draback, I would mention the period until you get the hang of it - sometimes it can be frustrating - but, hey,which software cannot?... And, the other drawback i'd mention is that if you elaborate on the design - and with Sketchup you will, believe me, because it offers a lot (I remember once realizing that I was actually creating the keyholes of the door that leads from the main building to the podium balcony and furbishing the corridor behind that door, pictures, lights, etc... - things that would never be seen in any images of the track itself ) - it tends to slow down the computer. All in all it's a great tool, just check, many in this forum use it and they're quite happy with it - and we're happy with what they're creating with it

Ocad, my "home software" - the one I started designing tracks with - is a mapmaking software that's just perfect to use for track designing. The two main drawbacks is that theoratically it's not free and it only makes 2D images - since it's a map making software. By "theoretically, it's not free" I mean that the latest versions of Ocad are not free, but Ocad's home page offers the earlier versions for legally free dowload, plus the beta versions of previous, not so old versions. I've been using such a free beta for the past like 5 years and had no problems with it. So, virtually, it's free too. It's very easy to learn, I'd say, runs well and doesn't strain the computer, and, I'd say the results can be pretty nice...

Blender, the third software I can talk about, is an absolutely free, open source 3D CAD-software. I started using it because I wanted to somehow out my designs in "driveable" formats, so they cn be "really" tested, driven in driving simulation applications. Finally I found the Blender/TrackEd/Racer combo, Blender being the design software, TrackEd the splining/converting tool and Racer, the racing simulation game that will use the track files created with Blender and TrackEd. Blender is one of the greates tools for this job, for me it far surpasses SketchUp - not because SketchUp is not gret, but because Blender, I found, Is still better. Esy to learn and use, the vertical changes can be made very well - something Sketchup Sorely misses, I'd say - andm boy, this software's fast... And, did I forget to mention, all three (Blender/TrackEd/Racer) are completely free?
The only downside, maybe, is that if you want to make pictures to submit here, the results won't look half as good as with Ocad or Sketchup - mainly because of the dark grey background.

But, as I said, these are really not required to do great tracks - Paint is just as fine. The main thing is the idea, the track concept. If it's good, it'll be just as good in paint. There are some of us who submit hand-drawn designs, and, boy, are those great!

The main thing is that you enjoy what you're doing and give yerself time to find yer own style, own "voice". And I guess you won't have problems with that. After that - software is secondary.

bio

[nickyf1]

I started with paint, perfected paint, started using sketchup years back, now I just use paint.

NEVER UNDER-ESTIMATE THE POWER OF PAINT!

Unless its on Windows 7 though, MS Paint has been ruined in Windows 7.