Do muscle cars belong in GT racing?

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by I Rosputnik

What about a Nissan Stagea?

Anyway I can beat that.

How come people bring up the Volvo Estate that TWR did back in the Super Touring era as the gold standard by which other unorthodox race cars are measured?

There was a Subaru Legacy GT Wagon in Grand Am ST a few years ago and the Subaru Road Racing Team is using a 2010 WRX STi in ST, which for the NA market were all wagons until 2011, you can have either now (sedan or wagon).

[Matt]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

How come people bring up the Volvo Estate that TWR did back in the Super Touring era as the gold standard by which other unorthodox race cars are measured?

There was a Subaru Legacy GT Wagon in Grand Am ST a few years ago and the Subaru Road Racing Team is using a 2010 WRX STi in ST, which for the NA market were all wagons until 2011, you can have either now (sedan or wagon).

hatchback =/= wagon.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by I Rosputnik

Returning things back to muscle cars, here's the new Ford Mustang Boss 302.

I would say GT2/LMGT or if you push it GT1; but LMGT makes better sense.

Ack! No pony cars (muscle cars no longer exist) in GT2! Maybe GT3, but GT2 should be for sports cars only!

[gucom]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Ack! No pony cars (muscle cars no longer exist) in GT2! Maybe GT3, but GT2 should be for sports cars only!

which brings us back the the original question but I have to disagree here, in my opinion if it's a coupé, it's eligible for GT racing, especially if it's a performance-oriented coupé.

To differentiate between mucle / pony cars and sports cars and grand tourers (and possibly 2-door sedans) is such an arbitrary affair, it only makes things muddier. If a muscle / pony car can be made competitive using the GT2 rules, I don't see a reason why it shouldn't compete.

Also, like I said earlier in this thread, the top-tier sportscars like 911, F430, Aston Vantage, Corvette etcetera also compete in GT3 and GT4, with the main difference between the classes being the level of modification allowed, and the level of performance balancing. So if muscle cars are eligible for some form of GT racing (GT3 or GT4), and if they can survive in GT2 under the same rules as the other cars, why not?

[GTfour]

I fully agree with you here,gucom. If it's fast and looking like a sporty car,allowe it in. I love to see the 'vette's and(back then) the Vipers,so why not also enjoy a brutisch Mustang or Camaro?
The more different cars against each other,the happier I'll be as a spectator.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by gucom

which brings us back the the original question but I have to disagree here, in my opinion if it's a coupé, it's eligible for GT racing, especially if it's a performance-oriented coupé.

To differentiate between mucle / pony cars and sports cars and grand tourers (and possibly 2-door sedans) is such an arbitrary affair, it only makes things muddier. If a muscle / pony car can be made competitive using the GT2 rules, I don't see a reason why it shouldn't compete.

Also, like I said earlier in this thread, the top-tier sportscars like 911, F430, Aston Vantage, Corvette etcetera also compete in GT3 and GT4, with the main difference between the classes being the level of modification allowed, and the level of performance balancing. So if muscle cars are eligible for some form of GT racing (GT3 or GT4), and if they can survive in GT2 under the same rules as the other cars, why not?

I personally think GT2 should be racing versions of top level street cars. In other words, I shouldn't be able to afford one. Yet.

Originally Posted by GTfour

I fully agree with you here,gucom. If it's fast and looking like a sporty car,allowe it in. I love to see the 'vette's and(back then) the Vipers,so why not also enjoy a brutisch Mustang or Camaro?
The more different cars against each other,the happier I'll be as a spectator.

Aerodynamics would be a huge issue. Both the Mustang and particularly the Camaro are shaped like bricks. The Camaro is a big, bloated thing right now and will be redesigned on 7/8ths scale in a few years. GM wouldn't let a Camaro beat a factory Corvette either.

[gucom]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

I personally think GT2 should be racing versions of top level street cars. In other words, I shouldn't be able to afford one. Yet.

maybe this is my inner tax lawyer speaking, but if you set any kind of rules, those rules should at least meet the criterium of objectivity (no arbitrary decisions based on what you like or don't like, but a clear set of conditions).
Now you could set a requirement for GT2 homologation that the roadcar must cost at least, say, 80.000 dollars, which would be objective, but it'd be silly in terms of setting reasonable rules (not to mention the mess you'd most probably create).
Thinking about it though, it could be that the ACO / FIA reserved the right to deny any cars they feel are outside of the spirit of the rules... but then there's the question of wether your view of the spirit of the rules (fairly unobtainable cars) is the same as the ACO's / FIA's view of the spirit (and, since they made the rules, they decide on what the "real" spirit is).

Aerodynamics would be a huge issue. Both the Mustang and particularly the Camaro are shaped like bricks. The Camaro is a big, bloated thing right now and will be redesigned on 7/8ths scale in a few years. GM wouldn't let a Camaro beat a factory Corvette either.

well in that case natural selection will probably do its work and keep particularly the Camaro out of GT2 no harm done, but at least they'd be welcome to have a go at it if they wanted to.

[dj4monie]

The Mustang and Camaro so called, "aero" issues would really only show up at really long circuits. Because they have tried to slow down circuits over the year, handling/balance has become much more of an issue. The BMW doesn't look like it cheats the wind very well, but it was very fast at Spa and made up most of its time in Sector 2.

I would say that would be the case for these cars. Not the slickest cars but if you can iron out the chassis balance and handling, its not that big of a deal.