Hartley axed by Red Bull?

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by bella

i would disagree with that. what did wickens do last year, f2, and now he's onto gp3? hmmm...

Yeah, he moved up.

[Go_For_Pole]

Originally Posted by bella

i doubt very much they'd get rid of alguersuari. he's just about everything the red bull brand stands for.

Yeap, 5 million of euro-reasons to stand for as it is said But I agree about Ricciardo, what to do with him is a tough one. Good luck to them.

[F1 Prospects]

Originally Posted by bella

i would disagree with that. what did wickens do last year, f2, and now he's onto gp3? hmmm...

I am not convinced that GP3 will be around forever but I think it is a strong series compared to F2 and even the F3 EuroSeries but let's not kid ourselves, it is one of the best places to be because it races Grand Prix weekend. Despite all the technology out there that allows us to follow racing from our laptops and smartphones, the fact remains that drivers in the GP support series get some face time with F1 people. Not formally at the track neccessarily but informally and those contacts are worth their weight in gold to a young driver, especially a non-European who may find it difficult getting into British F3 or Formula Renault.

[KateM]

Originally Posted by bella

i reckon they're gonna have a serious issue with what to do with ricciardo if he wins the formula renault 3.5 title this year (unlikely, but possible). they don't really have a gp2 presence, would they resurrect that?

I've been wondering about this too. Even if he finishes 2nd to Aleshin (who is in his 4th season), another year of WSR is just going to be treading water and will damage his credibility if he doesn't take the title. Red Bull don't seem to be keen on doing GP2 anymore (because of cost I guess), but I wonder if they'll make an exception and let Ricciardo do a season with Arden. But then we are talking about Red Bull, they don't always go hand in hand with logic.

Originally Posted by F1 Prospects

I am not convinced that GP3 will be around forever but I think it is a strong series compared to F2 and even the F3 EuroSeries but let's not kid ourselves, it is one of the best places to be because it races Grand Prix weekend. Despite all the technology out there that allows us to follow racing from our laptops and smartphones, the fact remains that drivers in the GP support series get some face time with F1 people. Not formally at the track neccessarily but informally and those contacts are worth their weight in gold to a young driver, especially a non-European who may find it difficult getting into British F3 or Formula Renault.

Agreed, F2 isn't worth doing unless there is really no alternative. I haven't heard anyone being even remotely interesting in Jolyon Palmer for next year. I don't know, if he takes the title and really really impresses in the Williams test they might take him as a reserve (I suspect thats unlikely though), but what other F1-related options does he have? I wonder how Dr Palmer will feel about having to let his son go to another series to advance his F1 chances?

Hartley's best chance is to scrape together enough cash for a GP3 season. But he'll have to absolutely dominate to keep his F1 hopes alive. Its unfortunate for him, but I think the Red Bull dropping has been coming a while, he was lucky to survive last year's cull.

[jondownunder]

I saw Brendon at Thruxton last weekend and he kindly signed something. Didn't stop to ask about the whole Red Bull thing! He seemed to be there with Hitech. I guess as a former Thruxton winner they were using him for driver coaching... noticed him on the banking at Campbell/Cobb during one of the races.

http://www.motorsport.com/photos/pop...91:81910&S=BF3

[gt_torque]

A really interesting thread this. Lots of questions that will have some complex answers I'm sure!

STR have confirmed Buemi and Jaime for 2011, so Daniel won't be going there. I'd wager he will be in GP2 and with a non-redbull team, albeit with heavy sponsorship. Arden is a possible.

JEV has done more development work that Hartley for RBR since April/May time, so their programme won't be thrown off kilter too much.

As for Brendon, who knows. I doubt' he'd go near F2 (especially as most people think it won't be here next year), so perhaps GP3 or a F3 Euroseries drive and appearance at Pau?

[cleanup]

Originally Posted by F1 Prospects

I am not convinced that GP3 will be around forever but I think it is a strong series compared to F2 and even the F3 EuroSeries but let's not kid ourselves, it is one of the best places to be because it races Grand Prix weekend. Despite all the technology out there that allows us to follow racing from our laptops and smartphones, the fact remains that drivers in the GP support series get some face time with F1 people. Not formally at the track neccessarily but informally and those contacts are worth their weight in gold to a young driver, especially a non-European who may find it difficult getting into British F3 or Formula Renault.

Agree with all you say, big problem is that GP3 is shocking at the moment, its because of the F1 people exposure issue that it has attracted a majority of talent free drivers ( with budget), all on a mission to get noticed, understandable. More importantly, does GP3 really offer any real developement for the next step. The car is bad, sounds horrific, useless for close quarter racing and in my opinion, serious talent spotters will be far too intelligent and will look within other series, F3 and WSBR ,much better standard from front runners. When all the glitz and gamour of racing with F1 circus is pushed aside, one day, some of those drivers will have to perform for real. GP3 from what I have watched is no help to our next F1 generation, get rid asap.

[jondownunder]

While I agree with everything else you say (I would like to see GP3 disappear too, and the car's sound is an insult) I think you're way off suggesting the majority of drivers are talent free.

Gutierrez, Rossi, Wickens, van der Zande, Smith, Morad, Quaife-Hobbs, Newgarden, Varhaug, Hegewald, Bortolotti, Christensen, Coletti, Sanchez-Lopez, Monras, Muller and more have all demonstrated a decent level of talent before GP3. I'd say the talent free part of the grid is the minority.

I guess this was helped by the teams having to offer cheap deals - if they could get away with charging a full budget no doubt there'd be a larger proportion of rich but talentless hopefuls. But I think the grid is remarkably strong, it's just a shame these drivers would probably learn a lot more in F3.

[KateM]

Originally Posted by jondownunder

While I agree with everything else you say (I would like to see GP3 disappear too, and the car's sound is an insult) I think you're way off suggesting the majority of drivers are talent free.

Gutierrez, Rossi, Wickens, van der Zande, Smith, Morad, Quaife-Hobbs, Newgarden, Varhaug, Hegewald, Bortolotti, Christensen, Coletti, Sanchez-Lopez, Monras, Muller and more have all demonstrated a decent level of talent before GP3. I'd say the talent free part of the grid is the minority.

I guess this was helped by the teams having to offer cheap deals - if they could get away with charging a full budget no doubt there'd be a larger proportion of rich but talentless hopefuls. But I think the grid is remarkably strong, it's just a shame these drivers would probably learn a lot more in F3.

You're right, there is some decent talent in there, but the larger-than-average grid means it has to be "topped up" with useless ride-buyers. And because there are so many cars, it means more accidents than average, especially at the start. I think the first step to improving it (if it is here to stay) is either making the 3rd car non-compulsory for next year, or removing it completely.

The other thing is it seems the only team which have really "got to grips" with the cars themselves are ART, who are predictably dominating (though they could do with some more of that in GP2 this year). Whether this is because they are difficult to set-up or just down to the ineptness of some of the teams, I don't know. But some of the guys on your list have done nothing this year, despite being impressive pre-GP3.

But for now, I still think its Hartley's best option for next year. Its a sideways move but it keeps him more in touch with F1 instead of having to go for something like F2 or Superleague.

[dank]

Originally Posted by KateM

But for now, I still think its Hartley's best option for next year. Its a sideways move but it keeps him more in touch with F1 instead of having to go for something like F2 or Superleague.

This might be sheer coincidence, but I saw Brendon in the Superleague paddock at Silverstone at the start of the season. He also sat alongside me in the BRDC stand during qualifying on the Saturday.

I presumed he turned up as he knows Earl Bamber? Or... maybe he was there for some other reason?

[Go_For_Pole]

Originally Posted by KateM

I think the first step to improving it (if it is here to stay) is either making the 3rd car non-compulsory for next year, or removing it completely.

That would push budgets skyhigh. There is a simpler way, punish those that drive recklessly. For example Hockenheim's big shunt was mainly the fault of Rossi who somehow figure it was fit to go three wide through the grass.

Originally Posted by KateM

The other thing is it seems the only team which have really "got to grips" with the cars themselves are ART, who are predictably dominating (though they could do with some more of that in GP2 this year). Whether this is because they are difficult to set-up or just down to the ineptness of some of the teams, I don't know. But some of the guys on your list have done nothing this year, despite being impressive pre-GP3.

ART are dominating largelly because of Esteban and the fact that historically they are excellent at figuring out a new car. Some of the other teams will catch up by next year and it will be down to the drivers. In fact, I would say that for the drivers that Manor has they might be doing an even better job than ART. And let's not forget that some of the good drivers listed have been quite unlucky with reliability which is always a factor in a new series.

On the subject of Hartley, given that they are a few free/cheap rides already I wouldn't be surprised if he joined even from Spa.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Go_For_Pole

On the subject of Hartley, given that they are a few free/cheap rides already I wouldn't be surprised if he joined even from Spa.

That was my thought and I've even suggested it to someone within GP3, so we shall see.